Is this true?

[FabIsGettingThere]

My therapist says the more I lose it with the kids the more they will push it as they want to see how far they can go until Mummy is okay again?

Since they have been utter nightmares this morning (all of them) and I have absolutely no control over them wtf do I do?

DS2 bit ds1 because he took his dressing gown. DS1 now haws a red bite mark on his back.

DD continued to back chat me even when I told her several times to stop.

All of them buttered in when I was telling the others off and it all started about 2 minutes after daddy left.

I felt a sneaking admiration for them daring to be so bloody cheeky as I would get smacked if I so much as answered back in a very minor way but now it has got out of control.

Angels at school...

Ditto for my two!
This week, DD (8) bit me at the swimming pool in front of everyone and then carried on thumping me and saying I was a bad mother! Then last night, when I tried helping her with homework, she said it was her's to do and didn't want me to interfere and proceeded to thump and kick me with her boots on! I didn't smack her but instead, just tried to walk away and ignore her - that's when she ran up behind me and kicked my bum really hard! Little madam.
I think you're right though to say the more you lose it, the worse they are. I've tried all ways but at the end of the day,kids today are far less scared of consequences; DD even had the cheek last night to double check if we were sending her on a PGL pony holiday!!! Obviously I told her she wouldn't be going at all but she just isn't able to put 2 and 2 together to see how her behaviour althers how we treat her.

DS1 told DH the teacher checks his homework so we don't need too. Fine, take it in and get comments about the spelling mistakes then.

I feel like giving up on them tbh.

I'd be interested in others veiws, but personally I think that sounds a bit daft to put it mildly.

I think most of us would agree that our kids do sometimes like to push our buttons to see us react, see how far they can go, YES, but until Mummy is okay again....don't agree with that at all.

I do agree that you "loosing it", has them feel in control, rather than you, so they'll push it further.........if DD7 has had a bad day at School she will push & push, & has owned up to doing this on purpose because she feels angry about her day, & feels safe taking it out on me ..........I've seen my friend with 3 all close in age go through hell with this too......& now she's learned not to loose it, but to be very "nanny mcfee" firm & scary in a controlled way instead, her kids toe the line a lot better too

T

Until Mummy is okay again isn't right but I can't remember what she said and that was as near as I could get. Just saying they see how far they can go with mummy getting cross doesn't seem to add up if it is unsettling them.

DS1 is like this pushes and pushes and piushes and pushes until i yell raise my voice. then sort of smirks and stops...for a while.

Shouting doesn't work for mine unless it is really really loud. Not good.

I don't want to smack. Don't believe it works or helps anyway.

I need to ignore ignore ignore but very hard when they are physically hurting each other. So far

2 black eyes.
2 or 3 bites.
Bruised faces.
Fingers and toes trapped in doors.
Hands and wrists stood on.
Scratches.
Blood spilt.

Would it help to ease up on some things as in the "choose your battles" thing?

Like the homework- might it not be a good idea if your dcs did bring in unchecked work so the teacher actually gets an idea where they're at (rather than where their mum is at)? I found homework a major source of contention in our house until I took my hand from it altogether: now dcs choose whether they want to do it or get detention (after the first detention, they have chosen to do it), and the standard of work is as they make it. A little responsibility helps a lot.

Concentrate on them hurting each other instead: agree that this is one where you really do need to intervene.

I'm sorry but FabIsGettingThere and luciemule - your dc really need some disciplining.

Physical violence against ANYONE is not on.

I'm confused that you seem so blase about it?

Fucking hell, you really have no idea do you?

cory - I really try and pick my battles but when they are badly behaved 95% of the time, it doesn't leave a lot. I am not doing his homework - just pointing him in the direction of a dictionary which he says he doesn't have or need.

Fab

you may know DS2 has ASD but whatthe therapist is saying may be a version of what DS2s therpist said ( although not for the same reasons IYSWIM )

What DS2 was doing all thetime was trying to get a reaction from me. He wanted me to be in a heightened emotional state ( ie angry or upset or cross) because it was highly charged for him and he was in a strange way addicted to that whole 'excited' atmosphere.

Are you with me?

It was for a number of reasons. He wanted my attention. he wanted the stimulation of seeing me react. he wanted to feel in control in a way. he was also very frightened and he pushed and pushed to try and get me to be in control.
When I freaked out, shouted or got upset it just made him more anxious and ( although it is ironic) more likely to do it again in order to try and reassure himself.

The more I lost it the more he did it. He got more and more anxious and I got less and less able to cope . So it spiralled.

Once I got my reactions under control he tried even harder to provoke me until he finally started to feel confident that mum was in charge, she was in control and he started to feel more safe. Only then did he stop acting up....

It was incredibly hard. But it worked.
I remember sitting in the car singing to myself while he screamed the bloody place down for over an hour until he finally fell asleep.
But it really really did work.
He is a total sweetheart now.

Does that make sense?

It does, I feel ds1 wants more attention but how the hell am I meant to give it when there are 3 of them and 1 of me and to be frank after some of their behaviours I don't want to spend any time with them.

Nothing goes in.

ruby - please just leave it now as you are not helping.

I think the way I did it was to treat it a bit like potty trainning as in I tried to focus on the fact that whilst it was unpleasant the intention was to get it over with so that life would become easier

I know that you will be every tempted to read what I write and think 'well she doesn't really get it - what I am dealing with is worse' but actually that is not really true and , as I think I have said before, if I can come back from where I was then you can too.

When DS2 was playing up I used to leave the room. When he was self harming I used to have to ignore and talk in a calm voice about what was going on outside the window. I used to put calm music on and clear up where he has shat and rubbed it into the carpet and then been sick on top of that and rubbed that in too.

It is incredibly difficult and it is harder when you are feeling angry with them which I am sure you are - I was too.

Would it help to think that life has brought all of you to this polace. None of it is your fault but none of it is their fault too. With the very best of intentions the peace in your house has disappeared and your children , alongside you, are acting out of tiredness, and anxiety, and hurt.

Try and find ways to disenge. have you got an ipod?

have to go Fab.
talk later .....

I totally know it is all my fault. I get that. I get that I am doing it all wrong but what no one ever gets is that I am never going to know how to do it.

yes ruby. I know that.

I am just presenting what is a quite dramatic and therefore clear picture of the dynamic.

Fab

I do have to go - have to be at DDs school

Can you PLEASE understand that I am not saying this is your fault - anymore that I am saying it was mine !!!!!!!!!!

If you keep feeling blame it will honestly not help. You should get your therapist to help you much more with that. I never see one of your posts without you blaming or criticising yourself and it is no help and it is also inaccurate.

The amount of time you can waste on blame and anger will leave you with no time to clear your head and move on.

pagwatch gives much wiser and more insightful advice than me- I think she is definitely on to something with the addiction to a charged atmosphere; have seen this in other children with or without SN; terribly hard to turn round, but she does offer some hope that it can be done

as for tapas' comments, my chin is hitting the floor! who could read Fab's posts and get the impression she is blase? exhausted sounds more like it

I know very well that feeling of not wanting to be in your children's company- I sometimes feel that with my children just because they are ill all the time (so clearly am a much worse mum than Fab); it is not the same thing as not caring; faking it does help though

Fab, i agree totally with pagwatch.

dd1 is ASD too, and does exactly the same.

Ignore, ignore, ignore is the only way to go BUT I know how hard it can be if other children are involved too (dd2 will often supply the reaction dd1 is looking for - dd2 is only 3 so cannot yet be trained to not respond consistently)

The thing is, you have to not react AT ALL. so, no little sigh and tightening of the lips as you "don't react". no small muttering under your breath while you smile sweetly, etc etc.

It's a bit like everyone always says for faddy eaters - you have to get to the point where you are really conveying that you do not care in the slightest, that your life will carry on and be as happy and serene as it always is.

And then as soon as the smallest bit of good behaviour creeps in, pounce and praise to the skies.

You have to get your children to realise that the way to get your attention is to be good. What they want is your attention, which is why they are acting up - agree with pag here too - they are probably fascinated by your rections, and the power of being able to make someone do something is unreal to a child. control is their heroin, in a way (sorry if that sounds OTT, but really, children love to be able to manipulate and control situations)

I need to post this before going back and reading properly but I thought/wondered for a long time that there is something wrong with ds1.

I don't know your life history, but having read quite a few of your posts, I've gleaned that you had a hard, hard time growing up. It sounds like you feel that the things you should have been taught about being a mum were never handed down to you by your own mother, so you feel all at sea. Yes? But you can also see yourself as a blank page, a sponge to learn all the things about being a great mum (which you obv are cos you care so much) for yourself. It's not all your fault, really it's not. Kids push our buttons in teh way no-one else can. They do it with you cos they feel secure enough to. And that's a good thing, really, isn't it? HAve you ever tried one of the parenting courses? A friend of mine did one and said they were great just for getting tips for her flashpoint situations. I'm sure you've tried all the "we don't speak to each other like this in our family", "nice, kind behaviour makes everyone feel good" etc, etc. It is so hard sometimes with all kids, but don't make it harder for yourself by blaming yourself.

Fab I'm glad you started this thread. The replies from pagwatch are making me think about how things are here.
I def think what she is saying makes sense and I am willing to try it.
Maybe I have let ds1 get away with too much because I felt gtuilty about having another baby, so now he's read that as he's in charge and he is battling me for control and instead of losing the will to live most days I need to focus more on bounderies.
I know how you feel about feeling it is all your fault. But it isn't. I know that doesn't help, because I know that my ds's were born with certain temperments, I know ds1 is experimenting with his personality (he is 2.7) and I kinow my behaviour will teach him what he will believe to be normal behaviour, even though shouting at a 2 year old isn't normal (well it is, but ykwim) and I don't want him to grow up thinking that the only way to deal with any situation is by shouting your way out of it, but come on, how many times do i have to tell him not to push will it sink in? has gone on for over a year and nothing bloody works!
I feel your pain.

I feel like I have given up tbh.