Is this true?

[FabIsGettingThere]

My therapist says the more I lose it with the kids the more they will push it as they want to see how far they can go until Mummy is okay again?

Since they have been utter nightmares this morning (all of them) and I have absolutely no control over them wtf do I do?

DS2 bit ds1 because he took his dressing gown. DS1 now haws a red bite mark on his back.

DD continued to back chat me even when I told her several times to stop.

All of them buttered in when I was telling the others off and it all started about 2 minutes after daddy left.

I felt a sneaking admiration for them daring to be so bloody cheeky as I would get smacked if I so much as answered back in a very minor way but now it has got out of control.

Angels at school...

Don't say that

x-posted with a few of you.
Are you saying that when my ds1 'acts up' I should completely ignore him?
What about aggresive behaviour and pushing other children?
In the past week, I have stopped doing the whole time-out/naughty corner thing and I just say simply "no hitting" and then I tell him to say sorry.
What should I do?

Personally, I think your therapist is wrong.

If you really lose it with your kids what happens is they become scared of you and will try to do anything please you. It is the extreme of tone of voice. Probably as a consequence, they will have a life-time fear of upsetting people because they will worry that this is how people react.

Fab You don't have to give up and you haven't given up. You are taking the time to post this issue on a site you know has klots of members so will get lots of replies.
If you had given up, you wouldn't care and wouldn't be doing anything to try to rectify the situation.
Stop beating yourself up.

I have no wise words because I'm struggling atm too, but I am confident that we will get there one day soon.

Well they are not scared of me or trying to please me.

yep it is true the more you loose it with kids the more they will push you - especially teenagers in front of other siblings or worse still friends.

mine only tiny but learnt a lot teaching older children

well practiced school teachers who brook no come backs. its not about being feirce but firm and fair. Its about BELIEVING in yourself and the boundaries you set. Believe, say it, give out consequences if your rules arent followed!

and

catch em being good and lavish em with praise.

Have you read the "how to talk so kids listen" book. I'm afraid I have no real experience as ds isn't 2 yet, but it sounds really good. Got mine out of the library. It was recommended on here, I'll do alink in a minute.

Pag talks lots of sense.
Ignore, ignore ignore. Think that they are NOT your kids but you are the childminder. Whatever happens you cannot yell or react at all.
I used to do a little sigh and say 'OMG' very quietly under my breath at the sight of poo rubbed in the carpet. Do you think it escapes madam? Nope...
Next time she rubbed it in, sighed, said OMG and looked up and smiled angelically at me.

Fab, from a thread ages ago about snow, I know you live near where dd1 goes to school.

If you want to have acoffee at some point, and chat through the kind of stuff pagwatch and I are talking about - I've been exactly where you are:

I shout too much
I have little control at times
dd1 runs the whole show, and how can I ignore when she is involvong dd2 and pushing/hitting etc?

It does work, but it also does take time.

don't give up. you are doing brilliantly. the fac ttha tyou are asking for advice shows you don't want to give up, not really.

you want to know how to sort this out. and it is possible

this is it

I also seperate them. Only have 2 so it's easier to do. One is upstairs and the other downstairs. Deff they like to play up more when someone else is watching .
One plays on cbeebies while the other is getting dressed under my supervision. Then one has breakfast and second gets dressed.
Not so easy of course because now breakfast is on the floor . But still dd's hitting, shouting etc is down and the atmosphere is calm. Cornflakes is easily swept up.

Fab - you have said you were a great nanny. Could you try and be their nanny in a way? Take yourself back to how you dealt with bad behaviours then.

And if you are not sure you understood what the counsellor meant ask her again at your next session.

Last time you posted that I noticed we talked about the 123 book and you were putting 123 signs on the wall. Did that help?

I have only one dc so hesitate to put my 2ps in but I wanted to say that I read 'How to talk', in fact I have read it 100s times and constantly re-read it.

We stopped shouting, time-outs and punishments. Instead tried prevention and prasing good behaviour. Ds behaviour got loads better.

I think pagwatch seems to have hit the nail on the head, from what you've said your kids want to push you until you lose it. But they don't really want you to loose it at all. And once you stop, they'll stop. I think it's like a scab you keep picking until it hurts. You know you shouldn't but it feels good in a twisted way.

You sound fab - best wishes from a novice mum

Ruby, you were so fair of the mark - that wasn't why you weren't helping. If I only wanted to hear what you assume I do, I wouldn't be posting here like this.

that was....

I have my 1 2 3 poster. Only works when in the kitchen looking at it and not on the school run, anywhere else in the house, on the bridge with ds1 asking what I would do if he dropped his water bottle on to a cars windscreen....

FAB - I wish I had some great pearls of wisdom. I did feel I was where you are when my older DCs were young - that feeling that nothing got through, they had no respect for or appreciation of me, I was clueless etc etc. It's bloody hard.

But those nightmare DCs are grown up now (22 and 20) and are lovely, confident, thoughtful, mostly happy people. And it wasn't down to anything I did or didn't do - I really believe that the most important thing is knowing that you are loved by your parents - and all your posts show how much you love your DCs. What I'm trying to say is that you have some hard years ahead, and you will make progress in fits and starts, but they will end up being good people.

I love the idea of pretending you're their child minder so you can't yell at them! I'm going to try it, although yesterday, I was trying to tell DD off in a calm way but she was so hyped up, nothing worked.
Whoever said I was blase, was wrong. My DD is a very emotional child who is very academic and likes things done perfectly. I'm not one of these mums who does thier child's homework for them; I merely was trying to take an interest in her work (she had to describe what modern and contemporary art were) by offereing different ideas she could think about. That's when she went loopy. My DH works away in the week and (as I've posted before in Forces Sweethearts)it's not working. The kid's behaviour has worsened becuse DH only comes home at weekends but we're going to resolve it by moving back together as soon as we can.

I truly think that how you handle different situations with kids, depends entirely on the kind of mood they're in!

As usual I kissed DS1 goodbye at school and said I loved him. He said "I know." I was and told him I hadn't heard him say that before. No idea where it came from.

messymiss well said - couldn't have put it better myself.

I believe physical violence is NEVER acceptable. Trouble being that if they behave like that with siblings they may behave that way with other children. Yours may be angels at school but I have seen some children behave this way.

I have trouble with the concept of ignoring this sort of behaviour as how will they know it's wrong?

It does, I feel ds1 wants more attention but how the hell am I meant to give it when there are 3 of them and 1 of me and to be frank after some of their behaviours I don't want to spend any time with them.

This is the crux of it. Maybe it isn't their behaviour as much as your perception of it and reaction to it.

I speak as a single mum of 2 who also suffers depression. WHat strikes me about your posts is that you are so detatched from everything that is going on. You are on your computer reporting things as they happen, wanting other posters to help you out, to take the responsibility away from yourself. It must be hard for the dc knowing you would rather be on the computer than with them (and yes, I know the irony of posting this on MN). iirc, your ds was making a fire in the garden a few weeks ago? Was that you? (apols if not) They are trying to get your attention and your time and love, and the more they do it, the more you seem to be retreating from them. Children are bloody hard work. I know that when I am stuck in my own feelings the last thing I want to do is play another game with them or help with their reading. But I do it because ultimately I am their mum and the buck stops with me.

I really worry that your posts here don't seem to help you. I have got a lot of support from MN over the years, and when I was dealign with a particularly hard mental issue I was helped a lot by people's suggestions. Your posts to me always come across as 'o god, look what they've done this time' and it is like this again and again and again. And I will get shot down in flames for this. But I so wish you could be more present in your own life. I see a lot of denial in your posts. You have lots of regrets and choose to dwell on them, ignoring the needs of the here and now in the process

Exactly.

Exactly was to 2old4thislark.

justallovertheplace - I can't answer you.

Fab I totally understand what you say that no punishment works on them as I am having this problem with DS(9.9yrs) and have been for the past 5-6years.

We tried the naughty step/chair/corner, grounding, removing of privileges, no pocket money and canceling school trips and after school activity's, he doesn't respond to any of them and his reply is always "I don't care"

He lies, runs away from home and school, steals from us, is rude in school to the teachers, is aggressive with friends and his sisters (who are 3 and 4), breaks things, hitting and kicking us and the most distressing at the moment is that he actually keeps accusing us of hurting him.

If he hits/kicks out at us we will try and restrain him and if it's just me or DP dealing with it on our own he will scream for the other saying that we're hurting him (for example DS went to punch DP in the face but DP caught his arm and said "no you don't hit anyone" let go of his arm then tried to ask him why he was so angry but DS started screaming "mum he's hurting me dad's trying to break my arm" I know he was lying as he has done the same to me, he said i was strangling him when i was on the other side of the bedroom on a chair and he was on his bed.

We've tried doing more with him but he then starts acting up halfway through the activity or says he doesn't want to do anything with us and would rather go out or play on his own, so either way we cant win.

The biggest problem is that his sisters are seeing him getting attention from acting naughty so are now behaving the same as they think that will get them attention as well and that's probably why your DS2 is now behaving like it too.

I cant give advice as I'm battling this too but wanted you know that it's not your fault, you haven't done anything wrong, it is hard and there are people who sympathize with you and know what your going through.

If you want to chat let me know and I'll send you my email address, if you don't that's ok too