When i was a kid, i wouldnt DARE argue with grown ups, so what has changed?

[meatntattypie]

Is it a generation thing?
What is so different nowadays?
ds aged 6 is bieng so cheeky, and when i try to explain to him that it is unacceptable to speak to grown ups like that, he rolls his eyes and says blah blah blah", it drives me fucking crazy.

The one difference is that my parents would smack me sensless, i dont hit my son.
But how do you deal with this?

yesterday in Asda i held open a loo door about to walk through when 2 small kids pushed past me and went through the door, never said a single word, i just wouldnt dare do anything like this as a kid, so why is it so different, why is there a lack of respect now do you think?

I don't think people need to earn respect (esp with regard to adults from children). I think everyone deserves respect unless they consistently show they don't.

It should be an opt out clause, not an opt in one.

I don't think that being polite is a sign of weakness. People might take it as that but they are wrong-it gets you much further in the end. People want a reaction and the worse thing that you can do is not give them the satisfaction of having riled you.
I agree with overmydeadbody and DCs who speak in a dreadfully rude manner to their parents are polite in school because rudeness isn't tolerated.

Being polite definitely is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of confidence and even power.

Puzzled by the idea that rudeness is not a problem in schools, however well some teachers may deal with it.

this was just a couple of days ago.. thatcher's children

Hmmm, talking back by ones child is considered being confident and a positive thing yet talking back by a gang of hoodies to an adult is being feral and a negative thing.

Perhaps it is due to the way I was raised (Oriental culture), but I am taken aback a bit by young children being overfamiliar and talking back to adults. One can be self confident and yet not talk back - it is called being polite! My elder son is a very vocal and self confident boy and is not afraid to question me, however he knows that it is absolutely NOT ON to be rude to his elders.

I am old fashioned in teaching him to call his friends parents Mr./Mrs./Ms./Dr., etc, but this is more an American thing and find it weird that his friends call me by my surname (I don't say anything, just am a bit uncomfortable). At the same time, I encourage him to question me and politely let me know he disagrees. In return, I respect his views and respond equally politely (never say "because I say so" or the like). I don't think that talking back is positive or cute, and will not allow it just because that is the direction society in general is headed.

I know -- I lived in a culture where elders were respected because they were elders. The children/growing adults still have their own ideas, learn independence, learn to stand up for themselves.

Treating people, including children, properly and with respect doesn't preclude letting them know there are times when adults simply do know best and it's better to go and think about why than maintain debate.

I also think that politeness is the sign of confidence and power.
The hospital receptionist who remains calm, collected and polite is the winner. After the person they are dealing with has ranted and raved and been extremely rude they have no reserves left-it is rather like the 2 yr old who has a tantrum, you let them get on with it. Eventually-if they want to get anywhere-they have to discuss it in a reasonable manner, or stomp off slamming a door, it may make them feel better but it doesn't achieve anything. The polite person who hasn't allowed themselves to get caught up in it then has the advantage of being the reasonable one who can look at them as if they are very odd!
Some children in school certainly try to be rude, but they know the boundries. They know that they will be in deep trouble if they role their eyes and say 'blah, blah' when a teacher is talking to them! I wouldn't accept another adult talking to me like that and so I am not going to have it from a 6 yr old!

legality I have to say, I kinda agree with that article. I too blame Thatcher.

I think, though (I certainly hope) that there is beginning to be more respect for teachers.

I am interested in the lack of interest in this thread, considering it's such a hot topic.

If it were on AIBU and we were abusing each other, then it would attract more attention, sadly

Grrr I remember 'answering back', gets my hackles up just thinking about it, I remebering wondering how I was supposed to defend myself when I was accused of something if as soon as I tried to set the record straight I was 'answering back'!

Yes possibly Jamie

Well my high-minded and possibly wrong opinion is, that if everyone disagreed (a la broken Britain) there would be lots of people on here saying wot rot.

So either people don't care or they secretly agree, but feel their knees knocking at the idea of posting something that feels rather DM-ish in nature.

Step, I'm sure I got it wrong with my first, much too "old fashioned" and strict, and he's the one that is most resentful and least respectful. With two more and the growing up of everyone in the family (inc me) we do the conversation and questioning and so on but there is still a pretty clear understanding that sometimes it simply doesn't happen and it's "do as your told".

We have a code for it when planning for delicate public or dangerous situations -- IUO. An IUO occasion is one where Instant Unquestioning Obedience is required. I mean, it's a family joke, and we always talk about it later. But they know that it means a lot to us or it's important at the time.

Lol, sounds like a great idea, but I think I'll have to what a while to try it out on DS (being 2 months and all)

I find that article a little unfair. At 29 I guess I'm a child of Thatcher though I actually think of myself as a child of my parents who were (still are) loving, kind and polite. They also taught me to be polite, almost too polite such as apologising when its the other persons fault. I was having a similar conversation to the op with a friend the other day and she was also saying that she wouldn't have dared be that rude to our elders. Neither of us had it beaten into us. Like someone on here mentioned earlier I didn't want to let my parents down. Why is it always our generation that gets the blame?

I don't remember arguing my case with my elders until I was a teen.

But I do remember sneaking around behind their back to do the things they had forbidden!

I was terrified of my parents as a child and did not want my DC to feel this way about me -HOWEVER rude children who answer back to adults no way!

I tell my DC if they can justify why they want to do XYZ then I will listen but I do not tolerate rudeness -why ?

Because I am not rude to them, their Dad,Gparents,aunts/uncles and so I dont expect them to be rude to me -If they want to discuss something -fine I am totally up for that unlike my parents who ruled with an iron rod

To clarify im not rude to other people either outside of our family -just using them as examples
I think setting an example to your DC is vital as is The Look-used in social situations when you cant tear a strip off them

different culture

I want my children to question adults and to have the verbal tools to do so without appearing rude. I HATED it when I found out that my disabled dd had been crawling on her hands and knees to use the loo because the headteacher had decided he'd rather keep the disabled loo nice and clean for visitors. I also was not pleased when I found out she had stood by when a schoolfriend got into trouble for supposedly causing an accident to herself, and the teacher went on about it for days rubbing her nose in it in assembly, and dd had seen the incident and knew the teacher had got it wrong. And I wasn't too happy when I found out after a term that dd had been getting no maths lessons because Headteacher had decided her set was to be taught upstairs, dd couldn't get there in her wheelchair, so they just left her sitting in a room on her own with no teaching and no supervision.

Dd's response when questioned by me was the one that posters on this thread have been quoting with such approval: 'You can't get away with questioning adults at school!'

She hadn't told me about no maths or no access to the loo, because everything the headteacher decided had to be Right and Beyond Questioning.

I have never had any problems with my children failing to help others or offering seats to adults, every single school report stresses their good manners. But I do want them to understand that there is a big difference between good manners and unquestioning belief in anybody in authority, particularly if a third innocent party is getting into trouble.

I am glad that I was brought up in a school system where you could go to the teacher and say: 'Excuse me, Miss, but I saw what happened because of where I was standing and it really wasn't X's fault, she didn't move that mat'. I cannot remember much in the way of discipline problems from my own schoolday, but we were allowed to use common sense.