Oh crap. DS aged 2.5 expelled from pre-school

[WeThreeNinks]

I'm so upset!

Apparently he has been needing to be restrained on several occasions, usually when it is story-time.

And he doesn't want to be pulled way from the toy he is playing with when the arbitrary time deems it so. So presumably not attention-deficit?

He can't see the point of doing what the other children do.

I have been given the cahnce to stop taking him for now until after Easter.

Oh and the staff reported that they were uncomfortable restraining him. Then followed stories in the news, Vanessa George blah blah.

AIBU to want to send DS to Military School in Alaska?

What other methods have they used to entice him into the story area? What sort of 1:1 attention have they given the little fella to help him learn the rules - which is the reason he's there, partly, to move him on from independent play to learning that there are ways of being in a larger class of children.

I obviously came accross wrong, I didnt mean pick him up and take him somewhere and shut the door.. I have done this at home but when I do I feel like I have failed and I would report any nursery that did this immediately

I just meant.. make the area around him fuss free and safe ... eg one adult just quietly allowing him time to calm down and not allowing him to do anything that would hurt himself or others

I think restraining in any way is very very wrong in a pre-school environment

Why did you agree to your HV coming round? Just phone the HV and cancel - say "sorry to have wasted your time, but we've been thinking that really DS just wasnt ready for such a formal environment and that particular pre-school wasn't a good fit for him. We've got no other concerns so I'll call you if we need anything."

I took DS out of a very similar sounding nursery at 18 months for very similar reasons. He is thriving with a lovely childminder. A 2.5 year old doesn't need a formal environment, in fact for some, like your DS and mine, it can be harmful.

None of what you say about your son would concern me overly. I don't know any 2.5 yr old that wants to be taken from playing and concentrating on what they're doing to sitting still and listening to a story when they are not ready. My ds is 2.4 and would resist even though he is fairly verybal, he would still squeal. No way should the be restraining him to forve him to do as they say, he is a baby. Thank God he's been expelled, it sounds like an awful place with ridiculously high expectations.

My ds is still in nappies and shows no signs of veing any where near ready for potty training. They all do it at different times and the teacher's comment about her son being clean and dry at 2 is probably a lie and if not then it is inappropriate for her to compare one child against another wheich any decent teacher would know. Most boys are not ready for potty training until nearly 3 in my experience, some even later than that so don't worry.

My ds struggles to sit still long enough to eat so the idea of someone restraining him to sit at story time is very worrying!

He hasn't been expelled, though, smileyboy, despite the thread title.

The OP reads that they have suggested he takes a break till Easter.

Presumably they think he is not ready, which is what some posters here are saying, and I agree.

Also it does not say that they are "restraining him to forve him to do as they say." The OP just mentions that he has had to be restrained at story time, she does not say that he was being restrained in order to make him listen to the story, which is what many people are presuming.

I still think that:
a) restraint is BAD
b) the pre-school know this and don't want to have to do it
c) the fact that they have had to do it means that they feel the OP's DS is not ready for pre-school.

Hence the suggestion he takes a break for a term.

Quite a few people have said "he's still a baby" and I think that's interesting. Pre-school is for toddlers/pre-schoolers, and if you view your 2.5 year old as still a baby then that does rather confirm that he is too young for pre-school. Before you leap on me: I have a 2.3 year old whom I consider to be "still a baby." I booked him to start pre-school at 2.7 - but the rules have now changed and he can't start then and won't actually start till nearly 3. Now the time is drawing nearer I am actually pleased, as I think he will be "still a baby" at 2.7 (he is pretty non-verbal but communicates well in other ways).

As for the HV, OP, I was intrigued by your dislike of her based on:

" I might lie and say that he does sleep through the night because the last time I asked for her advice she told me to do controlled crying."

• you asked her for advice, and she gave you her advice on getting a child to sleep through. Why does that make her so awful?

Balloonslayer I agree with much of what you're saying but the HV advice was daft. She plainly said, "Do CC but you MUST leave the room" and when I said that he was in our room told us to hide under the duvet!

She also advised feeding DS jars including chocolate and other puddings when he was doing perfectly well on human food I had to submit a list of what he had eaten in a week and she did concede that it was balanced and healthy.

I'll explain the restraining thing. He won't be told. He has to be physically moved away from things, like many toddlers, or you have to distract him, or move the inappropriate thing he wants.

He was doing dangerous things like climbing on the windowsill. I have no idea how he was able to do that, presumably here was a chair there. I just had the thought they the staff might prefer that they never had to handle children at all.

The other thing he had trouble with was stopping play and sitting nicely with the other children at snack-time with an open cup. I don't think that's all that unusual at 2.5.

Could be that he's just too young for this setting as it does sound rather structured. I'll certainly look at finding another one.

And Riven that nursery does sound bloody awful Poor DD!

What on earth do they mean by 'restraint'? That would really worry me. If they haven't been properly trained, they might well really hurt a child.

Climbing on the windowsill is dangerous but how the hell was he able to get up there in the first place? Sounds like poor supervision to me.

Agree with everyone else, it sounds like a shitty pre-school with staff who don't have a clue.

Omg I've never been trained in "restraint" yet I often pick up my toddler to stop her doing something dangerous.

It is so risky for adults to touch children, in fact really you should have to be able to show that you've passed the restraint course and that you're full licenced to take a toddler down from a windowsill.

If they mean 'picking up a toddler' that's fine. But the use of the word 'restraint' suggests it could be something more. That's what's worrying me.

Gosh poor you, the nursery sounds really heavy handed and not very child centered. He is a baby for goodness sake so does not understand as much as an older child and cannot be expected to sit still for very long, even older children find this hard. My dd goes to a fantastic nursery pre school, they are lovely. Dd does not like to sit still at storytime so they just let her do an activity of her choice instead, she has only just learned to sit still at storytime but not always. I would find another nursery for your dc to go to that is child focused.

Cancel meeting with HV. Phone Ofsted. This group sounds awful. My ds went through a nursery like that for a very short period, before I realised that they were masochistic loons and removed him. I wish now I'd taken action at the time but I was just so glad to get him out of the place.

I have just read the rest wethreeninks i am , they sound like a bunch of loons who are hothousing homework Please please please have words with the manager, report like others have said to Ofstead and dont send your ds back no way. I am moving my dd 2.9 to the nursery attatched to the school which she is going to when she is 4 only because it will help transition and they are bigger and have more facilities not because our pre school is not good, stafff are lovely and so supportive and so unlike yours sorry WTN.

Yes cancel the meeting with the hv there is no need,they will most probably say that your child is fine and normal, the manager sounds neurotic and staff need training seriously, what qualifications do they have!

Where is the written evidnece form the pre school (observations etc ) that can back up their request that they WANT the HV to observe him. what exactly is it that they wnat to ruke out ?

I think they need to explain it a bit more and back it up with evidence , because if there is something not right ( which I dont believe there is , I work in a playgroup and 2.5 yr old s dont like being interrupted form their play to sit and listen to a story ) nothing will be dine until their is written evidence and obs backing it up.

By all means speak to the HV but only to put your mind at rest .

In the meantime find another preschool.

And homework like that from a preschool - well what on earth happened to learning through play !

edam given the misuse of the word "expelled" I'm not too worried that we're talking about the kind of restraint they use in prison.

I agree with BalloonSlayer, why put a child who is not ready for this kind of structured learning environment into one at such a young age and then get so upset when the staff tell you that they are not ready?

I wouldn't worry about the potty training. I don't know any boys who were potty trained at that age. Ds wasn't until he was 3.5. I would have a word with either your HV or GP if you are concerned about your ds being non-verbal. Does he not speak at all or does he have older siblings who do stuff for him?

If you don't like the HV I would cancel and speak to your GP. My HV was so utterly useless that my GP banned her from seeing ds from when he was 4 months (I'd had enough of her by then and so had he ).

Yes "expelled" was emotive, should have used inverted commas. And I probably did make a mistake sending him there, I didn't think the expectations would be that high for the 2.5 aged children.

I honestly thought it would just be toddler group but without me there. Was more worried that he'd want me so I was delighted when he had no problems in that respect and seemed to love going into the place.

I suppose what is upsetting is that the other children his age settled and got used to it. He's such a happy little chap and plays really well, very imaginatively, hopefully the HV will see that.

DD is nine, MollieO, so there is that. He has about thirty words but prefers to communicate in other ways. He sings quite well too

Sorry to hear about your HV, glad you had a result though!

Ninks, I can still remember translating for my little sister. She didn't need to speak in any way that even my parents could understand until I went to school and she was on her own with the adults!

Recall being quite puzzled that my mother didn't know that what my sister was saying was 'I'd like a cup of milk please' when it was obvious to me...

I was never trained in restraint for my own toddlers either. I always used to point the tantrum away from myself and make the toddler safe until he'd come out of it.

However, when you're an adult working with children there are now (whether we agree or not) guidlines and rules for the workplace in restraining children which must be followed for everyone's safety - both physical and also in terms of protection for all involved.

This seems to illustrate everything that I think is wrong about the idea that children as young as 2 need to be in pre school or play group, whatever you call it.

Just because the government says children should start education at 2 doesn't mean it's right!

He is a baby and not ready for any of that. If you need childcare then a good childminder would IMO be able to cater better for him . If you don't need childcare I would stick to socialising with friends or a group where you can stay with him.

StewieGriffinsMum makes a really good point -if you do still go ahead and see the HV, turn your concerns onto the nursery.

We had a very verbal DS1 who was out of nappies at 2.3, slept through from 4 months etc.... and I'm so glad we did as it's made me very chilled when HV and IL raised concern about my mostly non verbal 2.5 yr old DD who only got out of nappies at 3.4. If it was the other way round, I know I would have felt very pressurised and worried.

Your ds sounds absolutely normal as any curious and lively little boy would be. Am absolutely bemused by the nursery though!