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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Oh crap. DS aged 2.5 expelled from pre-school

93 replies

WeThreeNinks · 05/12/2009 22:14

I'm so upset!

Apparently he has been needing to be restrained on several occasions, usually when it is story-time.

And he doesn't want to be pulled way from the toy he is playing with when the arbitrary time deems it so. So presumably not attention-deficit?

He can't see the point of doing what the other children do.

I have been given the cahnce to stop taking him for now until after Easter.

Oh and the staff reported that they were uncomfortable restraining him. Then followed stories in the news, Vanessa George blah blah.

AIBU to want to send DS to Military School in Alaska?

OP posts:

drinkyourmilk · 06/12/2009 00:23

Homework at 3!!!! FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!
5 year olds do the same stuff you've just described at school.

purplehat · 06/12/2009 00:26

Only just seen the homework bit. Yikes.

I'd say that a call to Ofsted is most definately in order.

I ran a pre-school- well, several in fact- and I can tell you now- the issues are most likely with the setting and NOT with your son.

Original poster

WeThreeNinks · 06/12/2009 00:28

Oh and his keyworker asked me if I might consider potty-training him because he was one of few in the group still in nappies.

He is barely verbal as she should know.

When I mentioned that he doesn't communicate much so little point right now she said, "oh but my son was clean and dry by the time he was two"

That's hardly helpful is it? I used to be a teacher and I'd never say something like that!

OP posts:

Original poster

WeThreeNinks · 06/12/2009 00:35

purplehat, thank you.

I may consider invoking Every Child Matters. But I don't want to be seen as a smart-arse so will probably do the smile, nod, submissive thing when the HV comes.

It would be laughable if I wasn't so worried. DS is a baby FGS.

OP posts:

thell · 06/12/2009 00:47

Ninks, please don't worry about being seen as a smart-arse - somebody obviously needs to be, as they're not doing it! And if you draw attention to their bad practise it will be to the benefit of all the other children who are there every day with these odd people.

If your son was restrained, then I think you need to ask them under what circumstances, and ask to see incident reports.

(I have avoided meeting with my HV for the same reasons as you have - mine suggested a form of controlled crying when DD was 2 weeks old. I didn't think she'd approve of us bf and co-sleeping )

purplehat · 06/12/2009 00:51

I wouldn't worry about their impression of you- I would be more concerned about somebody- anybody in fact- being the voice of those children.

Please pass your concerns and experiences on to Ofsted. You might prevent other children being subjected to potentially inappropriate and damaging practice, and it will hopefully be the catalyst for things improving there.

MegBusset · 06/12/2009 07:38

Forgot to add last night. DS1 went to a different (Montessori) preschool when he was just two. He didn't settle at all well -- and I had misgivings over their care of the little ones (not that they restrained him but they didn't seem to pay much attention to those too young to join in the very structured activities). He was 'kicked out' too.

He started at a different (mainstream) preschool in September (at 2.8) and has settled in really well despite, as mentioned upthread, not being a joiner-in. He isn't potty-trained either and they haven't even mentioned it as an issue.

justaboutisfatandtired · 06/12/2009 07:41

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foxinsocks · 06/12/2009 08:21

it sounds like you are living in Stepfordville.

lots of boys are too young for preschool at 2.5 and it doesn't sound like the right pre school for him at all. I had to really hunt around for a pre school run by lovely grannies with a few young helpers who cuddled the children as much as they liked. It was the most wonderful start to school life but I did encounter a lot of places like you describe where they treated it like mini school - not all children, in fact most, aren't ready for that.

But if he really is totally non verbal at 2.5 and you are worried about that, I would have a chat with someone.

Don't take him back there, whatever you do. It isn't right from him. And boys are different to girls at that age so though your dd coped there, that doesn't mean he will or should have to!

MsDoctor · 06/12/2009 08:27

I would find another nursery and I would report them to Ofsted.

foxinsocks · 06/12/2009 08:27

(only because I think children start getting very frustrated at that age when they can't communicate so you may find that this is contributing to him struggling in a group situation iyswim - though it sounds like most of the issue is the school, I wouldn't ignore this factor!)

nighbynight · 06/12/2009 08:36

That is upsetting. I would look for another pre-school - can you turn the HV visit to your advantage by asking HV if they can recommend a pre-school that would suit your ds better?

HeiligFeierabend · 06/12/2009 08:37

Can you tell the HV to stay away? That pre school sounds completely out of order.

sarah293 · 06/12/2009 08:41

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sarah293 · 06/12/2009 08:45

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Malkuth · 06/12/2009 08:50

Do they have training on how to safely restrain children? I would report them to Ofsted as they sound awful.

BalloonSlayer · 06/12/2009 08:52

Why did they have to restrain him though, WeThreeNinks?

I am trying to look at this from a different angle than others have... instead of: "they shouldn't restrain a child, report them," I am thinking: "they shouldn't have to restrain, that should only happen if your DS was in danger of hurting himself or another child, so what is your DS doing that they have had to restrain him?"

They have already said that they feel uncomfortable with restraining him, so they clearly don't WANT to do it at all. So accusing the nursery of being heavy-handed doesn't strike me as an entirely fair first response> They may indeed be heavy-handed, but you need to find out.

How about you offering to observe him at pre-school?

If he is being restrained to stop him getting up and walking off during story time I agree that is appalling. But if he is being restrained because being asked to sit down on the mat like the others is causing him to have a tantrum that endangers him and the other children, then it might be something that has to be done. And they don't want to do it.

wb · 06/12/2009 08:53

But why are you worried? I mean, do you have more general concerns? Cause what you describe - the not wanting to join in, the not wanting to stop playing with a toy to listen to a story, the not being potty trained - that's all completely normal!

The only thing you mention that might possibly be worth checking out is the 'non-verbal' bit, as foxinsocks says. Get your HV to concentrate on that, maybe.

As for the rest, can you not keep your ds at home til he is 3 then try again - somewhere better?

frasersmummy · 06/12/2009 08:59

restraining a child of this age is outrageous

Excuse my inexperience as I only have one ds(4)but
Surely if the tantrum is that bad you put him somewhere quiet and safe and allow him to get it out of his system????

I have also found that if a tantrum has got to this stage 9 times out of 10 its because I havent handled the situation properly earlier but as a mum you dont get training and you learn from experience and your mistakes

I would expect professionals who have been trained and doing this for years would be much better at coping than us newbie mums

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/12/2009 09:04

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purepurple · 06/12/2009 09:05

Sounds like your DS has had a lucky escape.
This pre-school is wrong on so many levels.
Children's individual needs always come first.
Children should not be forced to sit still for story time. In fact, it is damaging to sit like that for some children, especially boys. Their bones and joints are not designed to sit cross-legged for long periods of time; it's painful for them.
Also, children can be 'turned off' learning if they are forced at too young an age. Early years education is about developing an inquiring mind that wants to learn. Getting them ready for school means giving them the skills to be life long learners. This pre-school is failing your son.
As for the health visitor, tell her you were bullied into making the appointment and you have no concerns.
Oh, and potty training should start when the child shows signs of being ready, not when the dragons at pre-school dictate. Your child is perfetly normal to be still in nappies.
Look for a better pre-school or nursery.

BalloonSlayer · 06/12/2009 09:05

"put him somewhere quiet and safe and allow him to get it out of his system????"

um, yes I think that is probably what is meant by restraint. You have to pick the child up, though, and try to stop yourself being punched in the meantime.

I would certainly include my lugging my tantrumming 3 year old up the stairs while he slapped me round the chops, then putting him in his bedroom, under the umbrella term of restraint.

But also remember "putting a child somewhere quiet and safe" could be a euphemism for locking them somewhere.

Skegness · 06/12/2009 09:11

Agree that the pre-school sounds truly dreadful. Is it the only one in your area or does it have some hidden good points? Just wondering if there's a lack of choice as you had clearly had reservations from your daughter's time there but still sent your son there.

Are you concerned about your son's development? If not, why see the health visitor at all, unless she's a particularly good egg who you'd be happy to see any time?

titfertat · 06/12/2009 09:17

DH was expelled from playgroup many many years ago but didn't ever have problems are playgroup / school after that.

I agree that your DS's behaviour sounds pretty normal, and the pre-school sound like they are totally over-reacting.

bramblebooks · 06/12/2009 09:18

Crickey! Do they have formal training in restraining a child? Because if we want to do that in primary we have to have had the official training from a special team and it all has to be noted in detail in a record book, including what kind of 'hold' we used. I'm not talking Mexican wrestling either.

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