Dd is hated at school, no friends, and just having a miserable time. Even dh seems to dislike her these days, and she does have some annoying habits. What on earth do I do?

[Feelsosorryfordd]

God, this is a brutally honest one, no punches pulled.

Dd1 has always been slightly 'different'. She has always played by herself in complex imaginary worlds. She has always been touchy, awkward and a bit gauche. She does do odd, sometimes irritating things like make weird screaming noises, and keep repeating the same thing over and over. She just doesn't 'connect' with people.

However, now she has got to 6yo and Year 1, it is starting to get really problematic. My heart breaks for her when she comes home from school every night with another story about being bullied and hated.

She says all the children tell her to 'Get Lost'. She developed a friendship with a new girl who started at the school this year, but within weeks, this girl was telling her she hated her.

What the hell do I do? Even at home, her strange behaviour is starting to get on our nerves. The strange obsessiveness about toys, the refusal or inability to see anyone else's point of view, the strange squeaking noises.

Is a child psychiatrist going to be able to help or shall I just leave her be, with love and support, to develop her own personality, albeit a fairly anti-social one???

Hi FS,
As a mum with 2 children with SEN, I completely understand how isolating and upsetting this is, both for you and your child. Your DH is not handling things well, but it sounds as though he knows that. I think it's important he understand that it is perfectly natural to grieve for the loss of the child you had hoped to have, however he can't allow that grief to sour his relationship with the daughter he does have.
Whatever is going on with your dd, she needs unconditional love and support from her family. She needs to feel that the family unit is a safe haven from a world that is probably confusing, upsetting and exhausting for her.
I hate to generalise, but I find that men are often "fixers" - if there is a problem, they need to sort it out. Unfortunately, that's just not possible with many SEN cases. You can channel this is a positive way though. My dh is now very much focused on getting our dds assessments, help etc. He's much better at not being fobbed off by school or other professionals. I always assume that the teachers know best when very often they don't, they want what's easiest. DH doesn't let them get away with it! Perhaps your dh would feel better and have a greater understanding of your dd if he was more involved in getting help.
You need to push for assessments. Ask the SENCo at school for a meeting (take dh) and ask them to assess her and refer her on to a specialist. Do the same with your GP.
I'm sorry that this has turned out to be such an epic post - your OP really brought back memories of the early days with dd1. FWIW, now we have a diagnosis and she is older and more mature in lots of ways, she's doing really well. Take care of yourself.

OMG feelsosorry! "Dh just thinks that we need to discipline her more strictly. She is already being disciplined all the time because of her oddity, but it doesn't feel appropriate to me."

That is exactly what DH thinks about DS#2 - he has similar issues to your DD but until recently had one best mate - but the best mate is cold-shouldering him a bit now As yet no-one is actively unpleasant to him but they all know he's different in some way. DH thinks he's being wilfull but I don't think that is it at all. Thankfully his teacher recognises that something isn't right and is asking the SENCO to assess him - heard nothing as yet though.

Doodlez - that 'Different Drummer' definition - what age is it supposed to be for?

Feelsosorry, You've had some really good advice here which I can't improve on!

My 13 year old DS was recently given a provisional diagnosis of dyspraxia/mild Apergers by the SALT team following a referral by the SENCO 2 weeks after joining a new school. Like you, we had suspected for years that he was "different", but the stress of moving to a new school made his Aspie tendencies extremely apparent, he was getting bullied and this was picked up immediately by the school. We were very fortunate.

You need to be polite but v.v. persistent with the school. Ring up and book an appointment with the SENCO, (don't ask the HT for advice/permission first) and request a SALT referral - they deal with commmunication and social difficulties, not just speech problems. If they refuse you will have to insist.

Something you wrote about your DH's reaction struck a chord:

"I think he just perceived that we should have done more at an early age to socialise her, and that it is our failure, which he needs to take action to put right."

This is a perfectly understandable reaction. My ex-DH responded the same way when I tried to explain to him about DS's diagnosis - DS's problems are all my fault because I didn't make him play rugby, join the Scouts and send him on sleepovers every weekend.

But I can't stress enough that this is not a problem you can solve by "socialising" her in the conventional sense of the word.

Children with dyspraxia or Aspergers can and do learn the rules of social behaviour, but not by being forced to participate in drama clubs, martial arts, Brownies, or even school playdates (We tried. Oh Lord, we TRIED!) . If anything, your DD's problems would be compounded in the short-term because she would probably continue to fail at friendships, experience further rejections by her peers, and lose even more self-confidence.

She will need to learn the "rules of friendship" by rote, through role-play with her family or specialist therapy if you can find it. Not by being forced to interact with other children.

Good luck, and do let us know how you get on.

It was a while ago so I had forgotten about it, but when my DS was going through the dx process he actually saw the school nurse quite early on. I wonder if it would be worth getting your school nurse to do an assessment to help with your referral by the GP. It was just a box ticking and scoring adding exercise but DS came out as having difficulties according to his score and it was just more ammunition to help get a referral and so that the school knew that it was a real problem, not a question of a parent looking for trouble where there is none.

I think, although I could be mistaken, that you have the right to see the school nurse for help even without the school referring you. It was 4 or 5 yrs ago for us so things may have changed or I could even be misremembering!!

'He knows I think she might have either aspergers or dsypraxia, but I think all he can see is our failure to parent properly.

It's as if it is all in our or her control'

and

'I think he just perceived that we should have done more at an early age to socialise her, and that it is our failure, which he needs to take action to put right.'

No no no no no no!
Your dd's issues are so, so unlikely to be due to the way in which you have parented her. I know it must be tempting but please don't blame yourselves for your dd's situation/personality. You are being an excellent parent in seeking out help for her.

'Because dd is mostly incredibly obedient, she is an easy one to forget.'

I would say that this is the reason that your dd has reached Y1 without being flagged up in any way. Good luck with your appts - the more you learn about Asperger's, the more your dd will make sense.

Thanks all for your comments, too many to respond individually, but I do appreciate all the viewpoints and am reflecting on all of them.

Dh is a lovely, soft dad. He is fantastic with her, and with our other dd. I know it's been the wrong response, but I hope you won't judge it too harshly. It is just so hard to see the wood for the trees at times, and he really wouldn't knowingly do harm to her self esteem.

I don't blame us for bad parenting. I think we have been understanding and we have tried to make her feel confident in herself. She is quite confident in some ways, although the confidence maybe springs from a lack of awareness of reactions and motivations of others? She has stood up to the bullies, which may well be the reason she is being singled out, rather than her differentness.

I had a long chat with her teacher today. She agreed dd is different, but isn't sure whether different enough to make her have no friends. She will talk to the SEN lead about it.

They are aware of the "cliqueiness" in the class, as they put it. Actually I think the 'clique' is a cover for bullying, and perhaps the bullying has brought all of this to a head.

I am going back to the school a week on Friday for a meeting. We talked about a couple of strategies. I don't do the school run unfortunately because of work.

I am going to book an appointment with the GP. I will see this one through this time.

Maybe I am wrong, and she doesn't have any particular dx, just a general 'differentness', but this way I will know for sure.

Feelsosorry, the teacher will not know your DD as well as you - even with the best will in the world, she has 30 other children and targets to meet... plus many teachers haven't got a clue about SEN....

Going to the GP is a good idea, plus you can request a statutory assessment if you feel she is ASD / dyspraxic (which sounds quite likely from your posts). You should ask for a meeting with the SENCO - take all your concerns written down so you don't forget anything relevant and tell the SENCO you want to request a statutory assessment.

If your local education authority has a Parent Partnership person, they would be able to help you too.

feelsosorry although the first thing to comment on was help for you/suport for your child (who does sound like she may be aspergers) the school seem to have a bullying issue to deal with too. Your child may be unusual but that doesn't excuse bullying. All children should be taught that telling someone to get lost is not acceptable behaviour.

MaMight - it's a book that aims to cover child-hood friendships, so covers 0 - 18 years really!

It is applicable to everyone in my opinion though, children and adults. The 'rules' are the same when it comes to social interactions.

Hi, my son has SN and I'm a regular on the SN board here. It's wonderful to see the high quality advice on this thread and I suspect you will be able to read and reread it. Pop over to the SN section too - it's like an instant club of people who understand.

If you can scrape the cash together, I'd also buy "Talkability", published by the wonderful amazing Hanen Foundation (www.hanen.org) and available in the UK via Winslow publications. It's very expensive, but no more expensive than a pair of new boots from a high street shop.

I totally agree with you - this is the moment to act - things cannot just continue like this.

very best wishes.

Lots of good advise on here. Just want to emphasise that you are not alone in having an 'odd' child. There was a thread earlier on this year solely about those of us with 'odd' children. It's a shame I can't find it as although the thread constantly had me in tears it helped to know that there were many others out there in the same position. It wasn't my parenting skills that were wrong it's just the way some children are, and as been mentioned here several times, all we can do is provide the love and support that our children need.

Hi

I just wanted to add that we had a private psychiatrist appointment for my son at age 10. He was a very bright lad who became very depressed because he wanted friends and failed to make them. He was diagnosed with mild depression and mild to moderate Aspergers. This diagnosis on its own provided a real turning point for him. He was intelligent enough to understand that he was good at maths and poor at social relationships; so just as some children needed to work on their maths he needed to work on social skills.

He did not have any therapy but the school (he was just about to go to Secondary school0 remained hyperalert to any problems with friends and helped when they could. I spent some time over the following year talking body language etc.

He is now 15. He still has some difficulties with his relationships (he lies to gain sympathy - but is learning the hard way this is not a long term solution) but despite these has an active and varied social life. Most of his friends are girls; I think they might be more tuned in to his differences. Who knows? Aspergers is a state, there is no cure but he is so much happier now than he has ever been and I have high hopes that when he is with a stack of other geeks at Uni he will find his niche.

Bit rambling sorry; and your daughter may be too young for this. But I just wanted to say that in my experience just having a diagnosis made my son feel better about himself. Maybe more importantly it gave us an opportunity to help him without it further damaging his self esteem.

The key was for him seems to be accepting his own differences; good and not so good.

Good luck!

Can someone give me the the Author's names for the 2 books mentioned earlier. One was The Unwritten Rules of Friendship as I can't find them on the Waterstones or WHSmith site.

Many thanks.

The Unwritten rules of Friendship

I hope it helps.

I hope you get somewhere with the school and/or GP, OP. My observation (from RL as well as from MN) is that 'borderline' ASD/Dyspraxic DC who are not actively disruptive at school often need their parents (usually mothers, in practice) to fight tooth and nail for diagnosis/help, but also that if you can once secure that help then they are the ones who can benefit most from it in as much as they can be 'taught' the stuff which doesn't come naturally and learn to understand the world which otherwise seems so strange and alien to them.

Good Luck.

Sounds like she is Autistic, possesiveness, weird noises, does she hold your gaze? This should have all been picked up earlier.
Angry at your teacher, especially the Reception teacher as they are the ones who pick things up first.
Hope you get a diagnosis soon.
My brother is Autistic, he is now 38yrs old, he is high functioning, but does like to rock back and forth a lot and wants people to think that HIS idea is the best...even if it total rubbish.
He can't see anyone elses point of view, never has. He works for himself as a computer 'expert', he just irritates too many people

Just wanted to add some more sympathy... I think it was MollieO saying see your GP. I totally agree.. I was fobbed off for ages by the school. Eventually saw a lovely, sympathetic female GP who said she would refer to the community paed. We had the appointment within 2 weeks and saw him yesterday. All in the space of 6 weeks....
ds2 is dyspraxic and the Paed will be writing to the school to make sure certain things are put in place for ds2 asap.
Make that appointment now!
Dh and I wrote a list of all the things that marked ds2 out as different.. it really helped. the GP used it as a basis for her referral.
Good luck

Feelso have a look at this place

I used to work there as the head of the Clinical team. I used to see lots of children who were exactly like your dd, from your description, many of them didn't have any diagnosis. It involves doing a programme of movements for about 20-30 mins on a daily basis for about a year. It can really help. I will be happy to describe it and how it works in more detail or you can just call them and they will send you out an info pack.

I have DS who is 8 and is quite similar by the sound of it. The school are keeping an eye on him and have both speech and language and educational psychology assessing him.
They are working with him on his social skills, he goes out of class to play 'co-operative games' with other similar kids and all the staff are very supportive.
There is improvement, it is slow, but it is there.

Gosh stuffedmk, what a fantastic school providing the extra support.

All the books mentioned by people are on Amazon. I have ordered them all.

I think the teachers are reluctant to confirm anything until you get a professional opinion. I can really understand it, because what if they agreed then it turned out not to be true. They can't necessarily win, other than to be vague.

I think it is a fairly mild case if we can get a dx at all. I have described all the 'odd' qualities that are making me think something is wrong, rather than describing the whole child. The squeaking is infrequent, the possessiveness is often. Communication is the big gap I think. In general she gets by un-noticed, but there are odd traits.

I am going to take her to the GP, but I think the school do need to sort out the bullying, which as tatt said is wrong and will not go away even with a dx.

as I said before we didn't go for a diagnosis because our child's problems seemed quite mild. I wish we had as the early teen years were very difficult and I wasn't prepared for it. With a diagnosis you have something to hit schools with when you need something done. You may also get a bit of help in finding good resources - I had to rely on mumsnet and google. The special needs boards here are good but not always relevant for the high functioning child.

Cheers Crack Fox

I have a 7 year old whom we think is Dyspraxic and we are trying to help him.

Tatt, definitely food for thought. I am going to pursue a diagnosis. The teacher did say that she is bright, and that sometimes children like that can overcome problems more easily. It would be nice to see what she is struggling against.

I definitely agree that when it gets to teenage years she will struggle, because that is the time when even more gregarious children feel isolated or insecure. I can easily imagine the misery of having no friends at age 13 being worse than age 6.

Social isolation is a horrible thing to go through as a teenager.

Better to start now coaching her - I have ordered the books. Who knows, I might learn a thing or two from them as well?

I am going to see the GP on Friday.