Shit! I am shaking. DS#2 just had the most horrendous long screaming raging tantrum I have ever seen.

[OrmIrian]

He's been crying and stroppy all evening. But no more than normal for a tired little boy at the end of the term. But then, in the bath, I didn't come running to get something for him and had the nerve to finish hoovering the floor before I did. And then took the plug out because he refused to get out. And he started to scream and scream and scream. No reasoning with him at all. I managed to manhandle him out of the bath and get him into my room. Still howling. It took about 10 mins of calming and cuddling to get him to stop. I'm surprised the neighbours didn't call the police .

He's 6 FFS! Surely this shouldn't be happening. I am sure there is something 'wrong' for want of a better word. He is so intense, he has huge concentration, he won't be distracted, he always insists on finishing a sentence no matter what anyone else is saying/doing and woe betide if you interrupt him, he has to finish a task (properly and in the right order) even if a volcano erupted beneath him. He is exhausting and tbh there are times when he overwhelms me. We have had battles over me not letting him finish something in his way - no matter what else is going on. Even something as daft as going up the stairs 'properly'.

Is it just normal 6yr old stuff? Or more than that?

OrIrian, I could have written this post myself. My ds is very similar although he has improved over time. I agree it is totally exhausting. I suppose that at 6 they are still quite young. I have had concerns myself like you and would also be interested to hear what others say. Most of the time it's OK but some days I am treading on eggshells and everything is a battle. I so sympathise with you.

DS1 is 5 and in reception and is like this every now and then.

I think they just get knackered by school etc and they are a bit betwixt and between, not a "big boy", but not a "Baby" iyswim.

DS2 has to do things in a correct order and tantrums all the time, he is 3, but I can't see it stopping anytime soon.

Is anyone at school worried about his behaviour? Because otherwise I would say that he is just the way he is. No need to worry and it was just extreme tiredness.

OrmIrian, you are describing my DS1, also 6! He started screaming on day 2 of his life and has not quite stopped yet...
Today he had a spectacular screaming fit with tears and snot and kicking walls because DS2 had really rather politely declined the invitation to joind him in some game or other . I truly feel when he loses the plot he is no longer in control and cannot help himself. I did not know what to do this morning and I shook him .
DS2 is much easier going although can swear like a trooper when unhappy.

I have at times worried about ASD and the like because DS1 like your son is good at concentrating on things, likes things his own way, is bright etc etc, but I have stopped thinking along those lines because on a good day he is cooperative, good fun to be with, relaxed, popular with his peers ie no problems with social interaction.
Interestingly, he has never ever had a problem in school, so obviously saves his nervous breakdowns for me... I think there is the argument that children feel safest with their mother/parents/family and can "afford" to let rip with them because mums are unlikely to abandon them.

If you have ongoing concerns, can you speak to his school or GP/HV?

Oh, 'tis draining! I so know where you are coming from.
Here, have a glass of red

10 mins

my 3 year old charge has done 4 hours

I agree with pacific. It sounds like something's not quite right here, the need for routine is way too much here. It's worthwhile talking to his teacher and to the senco at school. A child with aspergers/autism needs to have the routine and finish what they are doing. They are not trying to be a PITA.

Glass of wine?

my dd3 is like this about finishing things and in the strict order etc etc def no SEN though she's just a "finsiher"

As an aside I put my 7 & 3 year old to bed at 6pm this evening and tbh they didn't complain about it!!! The 5 year old also went to bed and hour early without complaint.

They are shattered def end of term itus

I once met a young chap with autism, he spoke with an american accent, it was my job to distract him from talking about his cars and get him to chat about something completely different. I failed miserably. When he'd finished, then we could talk about something else. He lined all of them up in a strict order, the same way he did at home, he couldn't look at me when he was talking, it was almost like I wasn't there.

My dd was still having tantrums at 9. And we're talking hours rather than minutes. She is now an extremely well adjusted and reasonable pre-teen. So that in itself is not necessarily a sign of SN.

But the need for ritual might be. It is at least worth looking into.

Thankyou.

pacific - "on a good day he is cooperative, good fun to be with, relaxed, popular with his peers ie no problems with social interaction." And that has what has made me feel that I am seeing things that aren't there even though I have been a little concerned for a while.

We have no major concerns at school - he has friends although a somewhat worrying dependence on one friend in particular, and the teachers says he's a bit 'silly' at times. But she has always praised him for his abilities to concentrate and listen well a times.

fluffy - "he couldn't look at me when he was talking". DS does this. Almost. He does look at you but it's a glazed look as if you aren't really there. He is able to shake off things you've said as if you haven't said them - as if your voice was a minor irritation like a fly buzzing (DD and DS#1 do it too but that is selective deafness I think )So teacher and senco is best route then? I expect to be told that is nothing wrong with him but that is fine too. I just need to find out for his sake.

Thanks all of you for your advice.

My DS2 is only 2 but slso shows these traits. DH and I are also worried. He likes thing exactly his way and if something doesn't happen the way he was expecting(hoping) he will have the shitfits described. DS1 never did this.

He doesn't seem to need us - doesn't particularly liek to cuddle (unless hurt)/

We don't know if we just got off lightly with the 2s with DS1 and this is normal behavioura for a 2yo or worry, as above, that he is on the autistic spectrum.

I'm not sure if I'm reasssured by this post or if I need to check myslef inot the asylum now.

As pg with DC3 I can only tap the bottle rather thatn hit it when it happens.

Hmm have been googling. Possibly a bad move as I am nor more worried than ever.

"? Lack of empathy
? Naive, inappropriate, one-sided interaction
? Little or no ability to form friendships
? Pedantic, repetitive speech
? Poor nonverbal communication
? Intense absorption in certain subjects
? Clumsy and ill-co-ordinated movements and odd postures"

Aspergers Syndrome website.

He is always hurting himself, always dropping/breaking things.

Oh, OrmIrian, step away from the interweb!

You do sound worried and for that reason alone I would discuss this with GP and ask for referral for assessment.

Remember though, that "Autistic Spectrum Disorder" is just that, a spectrum, and a lot of perfectly "normal" children may be close to this spectrum without actually meeting the formal criteria for ASD.

I attended a course about ASD and we were advised that most "normal" children display at least three of the ASD criteria - especially clumsiness, obsessive/compulsive symptoms, absorpton into certain subjects (e.g trains, football, dinosaurs). It doesn't mean they are autistic, these are normal for young children.

OrmIrian - we are wondering about ASD or Asperger's for ds1 and I have to say that Asperger's really sprang to mind when I read your OP. However, as lots of people have said, a lot of people fall close to the spectrum without being on it, and it might just be that your ds is currently showing some traits.

ds1 is considered so mild (at 3.11, even though his speech is very delayed) they're holding off with a diagnosis, and tbh if your ds has got to 6 without anything being mentioned, especially at school, it sounds as even though if he were to have any kind of ASD it would be on the milder side.

That said, I'm no expert and I'd definitely recommend seeking some advice. Sensory issues are very common in children on the spectrum, and it could be a sensitivity which is triggering tantrums in your ds. Some small changes could help him. I'd think your SENCO would be a good person to start with. Make notes of everything which concerns you and don't be fobbed off if you don't feel you're getting answers.

Thanks madmazza and pacific.

I am in two minds about this atm. He is being an angel today. But my dad rang just now. He was very upset about DS the other night - he was doing his usual my way or the high way routine and then had a tantrum - grandpa adores DS#2 and was distressed by this. He had already observed something similar earlier that day. I mentioned my concerns and my dad spoke to a friend of theirs who works with children on the spectrum - she knows the SENCO at our school and is going to speak to her informally. So even my Dad - of the "load of old nonsense these syndromes, it's just naughtiness plain and simple" school of thought is concerned.

Thanks reduced. x-posted . I am hoping the SENCO might take a look at DS.

It's always better to get things checked out isn't it. One of dds friends is fine at school his traits (can't remember if it's ASD, aspergers or ADHD) are all saved for when they are at home.........but he has a diagnosis and statement.

Perhaps your DS tries very hard to conform at school and relaxes about it at home?

Hope the SENCO helps you get to the bottom of it.