Clever DS (6) constantly naughty at school -- don't know what to do. PLEASE help

[BEAUTlFUL]

My June-born DS1 is great fun, very bright, but seems to be refusing to do his work at school. I don't know what to do.

I am cooperating with his teacher so every day she tells me if he's had a "good" day or a "not-good" day. It's really always a "not-good" day.

She says he can do the work, but chats constantly, fidgets on the carpet, and is very easily distracted. It's quite a "strict" infant school, so they really don't tolerate any messing about.

What is really getting to her, though, is that he is defiant, constantly seeing what he can get away with, or looking to see if he can get away with simply not doing the work that he is MORE than capable of doing.

So far his punishments have been: being kept in at break to complete the work (whereupon he always finishes it in 5 minutes), and today she kept him in all lunchtime for defiance. Her next move is to make him stay in the headteacher's office all day on Weds if he is naughty tomorrow.

What can I do? We have obviously talked to him constantly about why it's important to work at school but he honestly doesn't seem to "get it". It breaks my heart as he stands there promising solemnly to try harder, then gets distracted two seconds later.

I'm a bit like this myself so might be failing to be as consistent as I should be, but we have a deal where, if he has a not-good school day, he isn't allowed DS at home. Is that fair? Or am I just punishing him twice, IYKWIM?

I look around at everyone else's children and think, where have I gone SO wrong? Please tell me what I can do. I'm completely lost. Thanks.

ITs hard for bright kids cos kids are cruel with ANY differences so he might be trying to cover up, be bored not see point. HAve you tried talking to him. Plus We have 2 rules you take the consequences for your own actions and if you don't behave you don't get the treats (doesn't matter who for) certain behaviour is expected NOT optional

Is it his social skills that are the problem? so many questions little advice - sorry

Is he enjoying getting a reaction from the teacher? If he gets no/little attention when he is 'good', and gets lots (even though negative) when he is naughty, then of course he plays up! It becomes one big game for him...

Hello - thanks! I might have overstated his brightness. He's not unusually bright, but an excellent reader, very good at Maths, and more than capable of doing the work. So... why isn't he doing the work?

Socially he is normal, I think. he does have a v annoying habit of pointing out other people's mistakes, but that is probably just due to his wonderful memory and attention to detail.

He is lovely "inside", I'm so proud of him, but ARGHHH.

Donk -- I wondered about that. I said to his teacher today if he might be getting a lot of one-on-one by being naughty, she said she'd think about it.

shameless bump...

What should i be doing to fix this problem?

You may not be able to do much to 'fix' the problem - especially if it is due to playing up because it is fun and gets a reaction/attention. School need to fix it. Your role is to support the school in doing that, if possible. At 6, most children are still very much 'in the present' so sanctions need to be immediate, rather than happening later (i.e when you arrive). You could re-inforce positive behaviour by being pleased about good days, and maybe making a point of giving him a treat/lots of positive attention immediately after a good day. But preferably as a reaction to a good day - not as a pre-announced reward.

At least that's the theory. Its working to some degree for my DS, but only time will tell!

Ahh, you might be onto something. At the moment I don't reward him for a good day (except by letting him play his DS). Should I reward him? My feeling really is that doing what you're told at school is simply what you have to do, not out-of-the-ordinary wonderfulness that deserves a reward.

I'm such a bad mother! I really have no idea what I'm doing.

Doing what you are told at school is simply what you have to do. But if (presently) the 'reward' for misbehaving is greater (in terms of attention) than the reward for being 'good', why on earth would he choose to behave?
That's not to say that you should resort to huge rewards and bribery, but somehow, behaving well has to be made more attractive than behaving badly - preferably by making sure that he gets more attention for good things than for bad ones.

What does he say about school?
About his day? (nothing if he is anything like my DS - it's like getting blood out of a stone)
About his teacher?
Who is he chatting to? The current reward may just be that he is getting attention from a friend? Could he sit somewhere else?

And you are not a bad mother - or you wouldn't be trying to work out how to help your DS!

Find something good that he has done for the teacher that day and take him into town/local spar for some stickers/few mins in the park/ice cream on friday as a reward.

Agree that atm there isn't much for him to strive for so give him some small goals,or just find positive things that have happened at school[for example doing the work in break] and reward that[telling him ].

So turn it round from punishments to rewards[even just smiles and praise instead of serious talks with teacher] for the little things he does do and they will grow.

he's a bit little for too much heavy stuff ot you might put him off work altogether.

I couold have written your OP.

You have done nothing wrong. Nothing.

DS got given a TA in the end, and has a seperate workstation to do his work on. The school's coping strategy with him is to use the same methods when dealing with him as they would with a child with ASD (even tohugh he isn't) and this has been helping, partly because they don't blame him for the way he misbehaves, they just try to accomodate him.

Little things like making sure he has something small to fiddle with when sitting on the carpet (often a peice of blutak).

At first I got really cross with him and would punish him at home too, but that didn't help at all so now I don't ever punish him at ahome for what went on at school, I realise that maybe he can't help it and the school have delt with it.

Don't give him a hard time, please. You know he can do the work, but something is making it hard for him to do it in the classroom setting.

or rather the teacher

Ok, your DS may be doing it for attention, I don't know, I guess time will tell, but my DS certainly wasn't/isn't. For my DS it is not something he is consciously deciding to do or not do, it is not deliberate if yo see what I mean, it is just who he is. The classroom setting is one he cannot handle well, so he has coping mechanisms that interfere with him doing any work (he'd rather sit under a table).

He also doesn't seem at all bothered by rewards or punishments, and is increadibly subborn and willful.

His school have been wonderful and he's come on leaps and bounds this year, getting more work done and being better behaved in class.

I know it's hard but please don't assume he is being delibertely naughty or that it is somehow your fault.

Could I just add something. My DS1 was like this in Reception and beginning of Y1. then he met a brilliant teacher who raised it with us. we talked and worked out a solution. She was fantastic and worked out he needed more challenge but not necessarily intellectually. She basically gave him more responsibility and more tasks that made him feel important and busy. While giving firm boundaries worked out between us at home and school. He totally got it quickly - realised the benefits of behaving and achieving at school.

He is now extremely well behaved at school and achieves his capabilities easily. I really believe her astuteness made a massive difference. Bright kids sometimes need to be helped to realise that good behaviour brings rewards.

The point of my email was basically that maybe a strategy only of punishment isn't going to work. The teachers might need to find a way of engaging his co-operative side. If he's bright, he will be getting less attention that he needs perhaps, since by default the teacher has to deal with the whole class. Likewise the children who are less bright also really need more attention. So he's kicking off... So for our DS the extra responsibilities (collecting registers, helping other kids with reading, tidying up for the teacher, taking responsibility for himself in certain things) really helped him develop self-esteem at school.

email?!

Very tired....

This may be obvious and apologies if this sound condescending .... does he have a good diet? I mean, does he eat many foods with additives in ? These can really aid any hyperactivity or poor behaviour in a child. I SAW AMAZING RESULTS WITH MY DS2 (AGED 6) WHEN WE CHANGED HIS DIET quite severely - squash with added sweeteners are EVIL!! The difference being, my ds has a dx of mild ADHD and the food issue was very important for him to get right. My ds is also very bright, but can be a real PITA in the classroom. Your son's teacher needs to implement behaviour management strategies to help him access the curriculum fully - poor behaviour in the classroom can lead to kids falling behind their peers. It sounds like you ds needs to be kept 'busy' and probably thrives on being challenged - a good teacher should be able to handle him. They shouldn't be talking about how he is being punished, but they are doing to help him. Good lucK

thank you all so much! I went to bed early, so have only just seen all your messages.

They're all so helpful. I might arrange a meeting with his teacher where we can decide more "positive" ways to enagage his cooperation. For example, helping other kids to read would be PERFECT as he is a very good reader and kind-hearted. BluTak to fiddle with at carpet-time is inspired. He would love to feel important, and busy. I feel terribly guilty, as he is at heart a lovely, lovely boy, but it's so easy to lose patience with him when he seems to ignore every request! It's like his brain constantly wanders off...

They did give him a role as a School Monitor at the beginning of Y1, but he wasn't that bothered and eventually it was taken away again, due to his naughtiness.

I am definitely making the mistake of rewarding bad behaviour and not praising the good. Lots more attention for good things is needed, definitely.

I might also start taking him swimming more, as he adores swimming. And Beavers -- would that be good?

it might be worth a look on line at I think it's called Special Direct - it's a catalogue for kids with special needs and there's a brilliant section for kids who need to 'fiddle' - there are some brilliant little toys/things for them to fiddle with to keep them occupied when they need to sit still.

personally I would not reward or punish for stuff at school. I think they need to leave that behind them and have a clean slate at home but I realise not everyone would agree with that. I do agree he needs to see you value his education and to see that you agree with the teachers but I don't think you need to DO anything further, personally.

Also I think swimming a couple of times a week might be brilliant - certainly with ds who is always on the go, literally, It's the only thing we've found that really 'uses' him up physically!

I definitely think with your ds it would be great if the school could have that ethos mentioned by overmydeadbody, where they simply accept your ds for who he is and try to tap into his strengths. It's so easy for a teacher to give out a permanent air of disapproval.

I think any extra physical activities he can do (even if it is just running aournd in the park) will help. I also recommend Beavers, ds loves it (but be warned, it takes up a lot of your time as a parent{grin])

focus for fidgets

What happens in the classroom you can not control - that is the teachers job in my view. As the parent, you just need to back up the teacher and school in whatever methods they try. If your DS is chatting when it is a non-chatting time, then the teacher needs to take direct action in my view... by moving your DS, or the other child, or both (it takes two to chat). If he enjoys doing Maths and finds the work easy, then he can be given the reward of a fun maths based game to do after he has completed the maths he has to do. Maybe it could be rewarded with computer time, again it could be mathematics based.

What's his behaviour like at home? Is he defiant etc? What was he like in reception? Has his teacher changed? Was he ok for 1st teacher, but not for 2nd?

Focus for Fidgets -- perfect! Thanks so much for the link.

BarnsleyBelle, he was probably a bit worse in reception, but the teachers didn't make such an issue of it. At the end of Reception, one of the teachers said he was one of their "success stories".

At home we're very relaxed, and tbh, I don't seem to notice a lot of his naughtiness until we're out with other people. I was very depressed after he was born and struggled to discipline him in any way. He went to nursery 3 days a week when he was 1.5, and they let the kids do whatever they wanted with no routine or structure (that got mentioned in their awful Ofsted).

His pre-school nursery teacher really struggled with him, at one point saying she thought it wasn't impossible that he had ADHD, but no other teacher has ever said that.