Clever DS (6) constantly naughty at school -- don't know what to do. PLEASE help

[BEAUTlFUL]

My June-born DS1 is great fun, very bright, but seems to be refusing to do his work at school. I don't know what to do.

I am cooperating with his teacher so every day she tells me if he's had a "good" day or a "not-good" day. It's really always a "not-good" day.

She says he can do the work, but chats constantly, fidgets on the carpet, and is very easily distracted. It's quite a "strict" infant school, so they really don't tolerate any messing about.

What is really getting to her, though, is that he is defiant, constantly seeing what he can get away with, or looking to see if he can get away with simply not doing the work that he is MORE than capable of doing.

So far his punishments have been: being kept in at break to complete the work (whereupon he always finishes it in 5 minutes), and today she kept him in all lunchtime for defiance. Her next move is to make him stay in the headteacher's office all day on Weds if he is naughty tomorrow.

What can I do? We have obviously talked to him constantly about why it's important to work at school but he honestly doesn't seem to "get it". It breaks my heart as he stands there promising solemnly to try harder, then gets distracted two seconds later.

I'm a bit like this myself so might be failing to be as consistent as I should be, but we have a deal where, if he has a not-good school day, he isn't allowed DS at home. Is that fair? Or am I just punishing him twice, IYKWIM?

I look around at everyone else's children and think, where have I gone SO wrong? Please tell me what I can do. I'm completely lost. Thanks.

Hi, New to the thread. I could have written your thread. My DS is Yr2, but June born so he's still 6. Reception teacher said "she had never taught anyone like him in all her years of teaching", which worried me. Yr1 teacher said he fidgets and isn't interested in doing the work and works slowly. Present teacher is deputy head and hounds me constantly (sometimes daily) to sort out his lack of attention. All three say he's very bright and is low achieving. Most people who try to teach or childmind him say 'he has his own agenda'. I know he isn't doing it for attention, because he doesn't get attention for it. I always chat with teacher privately with friend watching DS in playground.

He finds any background noise halts his concentration and he day dreams a lot. In Yr2 we have signs on his desk that the teacher would touch to remind him to use his hands when counting, listen, look at the front of the class. Teacher put a dot on the whiteboard for DS to look at to keep him looking forward. Work he doesn't finish in class comes home. He has improved a lot, but it's hard to see it, when you know how clever he is, but won't apply himself and when compared to peers he's behind. V. frustrating. He just hasn't clicked with the 'why he's at school' despite our "chats". He's very imaginative which sets off the daydreaming. Teacher tells me devastating consequences in DS life if he doesn't start working better. Thanks, that really helps me to stay calm (wink).

If DS has to stay in at break to finish work he does it in 5 mins, but now that he hasn't listened in Recep and Yr1 he is behind and is now struggling to understand some of the work. We had a personal tutor come to our house in Yr1 and he now attends Explore Learning, it's all done on computers and he quite likes it.

It's been nice to read someone else has a child like this. Sometimes my head feels it's going to explode.

Consolation is that, if we can keep their self esteem up until they are older they are going to be great independent learners in a subject they're interested in (of course) and they will have plenty of ideas and think out of the box, as they say. They may have to work for themselves or become inventors. DS says he wants to be a toy maker when he grows up, ironically!

Happy parenting (grin)

Sorry it's long!

PS my second ds seems more obliging and conventional!

Is he just like this at school or does he have high energy levels at home.
Does he have difficulty sitting still
Does he find it hard to go to sleep
Does he find it hard to focus upon things that are not his special interests.

As a summer born boy it may be that he is just emotionally younger than most of his class but keeping up educationally because he is bright. Consequently he may not be able to sit still as long or concentrate for longer periods than the older children. If he was ten weeks younger he could still be in Reception. In many countries your boy would be still in a much more informal kindergarden

If he has the above difficulties in other settings he may have higher than usual energy levels or be a very active child who finds it difficult to focus upon activities he doesn't see the point in. If that is the case the school could look at strategies to help him focus, eg, special cushion for carpet time, short movement breaks, things to fiddly withh while concentrating, ensuring his seat is away from window and as many distractions as poss
Good luck

.

Hi, Not sure who these questions are for me or beautiful, but as there's no reply, I will :-)

Your questions are related to ADHD, which I thought of briefly, then ADD, but no he just has high energy levels. Joining a group would be great for him, but he hates groups, so we ride bikes together and swim. I wish he had been a Sep baby and been in the class below. They are all the same size as him and at the same emotional level.

His main issue is that he won't apply himself. His energy levels have calmed a lot now and he isn't so fidgety. He just isn't compelled to join in the all-class songs which help you to learn and he doesn't really push himself to learn, but then how many 6/7 yr olds do? If they are paying attention because it's in there personality then school is easier and they are not having to push themselves. They are young to be thinking like that anyway.

School seems to look to me to sort it out all of the time, whereas they should be thinking up better strategies.

We had a special cushion at home. I have sent loads of aids for him into school. Coloured sheets for reading and pencil grippers, blu tak for fiddling etc...

I hope Beautiful replies. It's so nice to know someone else with these issues.

Dancey "We had a special cushion at home"
If you are having similar problems at home with your ds, then maybe it isn't just the learning environment where his issues lie. I have a 6yo ds dx ADHD, and I kinda knew my boy was 'different' in a subtle way to his peers. Luckily, he has a great teacher who implements brilliant strategies to maintain attention and reduce fidgeting. My son is also Summer (Aug) baby (I posted further up on this thread)

ps By the way, not suggesting your son is ADHD, but just wanted to say I understand it's difficult

Dancey -- DS1 sounds EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOUR DS! OMG, it's nice to find you!

Update: the teacher said today that he had been watched by the SENCO (Special Educational Needs Coordinator) who had expressed some concerns, so they want to start an IEP. I'm not sure what that is, but think it's the process of assessing him for a disorder? Am seeing the SENCO as soon as I can.

Tonight I started reading a book to DS1 which I bought for him ages ago, called Learning to Slow Down & Pay Attention. it's a guide for kids with ADHD on how strategies to use, etc, to improve things. I didn't mention ADHD, obviously.

Heartbreakingly, it has a checklist at the start, a list of statements, to which they might agree/disagree. DS1 agreed with 99% of them, including "Sometimes I think there's something wrong with me", and "I wish people would notice the good points about me".

In a way, I'm almost wishing I'd kept him at home a year longer.

AprilFlowers: "a very active child who finds it difficult to focus upon activities he doesn't see the point in". This describes him to an absolute T. It really does.

ICANDOTHAT -- please would you give me more tips on improving his diet? He doesn't have any artificial sweetners (DH hates them and we never buy them), but what else can I do? Oily fish? He loves smoked salmon and smoked mackerel, would they help?

Is sugar really bad? I never believed the "sugar rush" theories so have been terribly lax about it, letting him eat Frosties for breakfast, etc. If I moved him onto eggs for breakfast, would that be good? (Eek, please nobody lynch me for sending overactive child to school on bowl of sugar. )

hi beautiful , my ds was exactly the same as your ds at that age , he is 10 now & a perfect angel {sometimes}
like your little boy he would always finish the class work early & then disturb the other children , until the school suggested we have him tested for ADHD [SAD] my ds tested negative but he qualified to skip a year in school as his test results showed he was 2.5 years ahead of his age group . he was tested at age 6 . he is much calmer now so please hang in there with your little 1 , lots of praise when he is good etc .
best of luck

Hi Pinklady! Glad to hear that everything worked out so well for your (now angelic) DS! Sadly that doesn't sound like mine -- he doesn't finish the work early. He just daydreams and won't start the work, or does it slowly (even though it is well within his ability), until he has to stay in at playtime to do it. At that point he completes it v quickly!

It's sounding more like ADHD to me. In a way, i'd be glad if something was "diagnosed" as we could help him, and work with him rather than against him. But on the other hand, it's worrying. Obviously, I'd like this to be something that goes away rather than follows him the rest of his life.

Also, I am frightened at the thought of all the challenges waiting to face a teenage boy with ADHD: struggling to revise for exams, keep friends, start dating!, learning to drive... Eeek.

hello Beautiful, good luck with your boy. He sounds very much like I used to be: echoing an earlier response I think food could potentially make a real difference here - I still notice the effects and I'm 35! Don't take any of this as implying you don't know about food - I just thought it might be helpful to say what I know makes a difference to me.

Sticking to things like brown pasta, brown rice, rye bread, rather than the white alternatives; eating oily fish or lentils or beans, in place of meat; limiting salt and sugar intake to what's already in foods; making sure his plate contains about 50% carbs (not with a fatty/salty/sugary sauce that undoes all the good work!) 40% vegies and 10% other stuff; eating "proper" breakfast (say a bit of fruit, some scrambled eggs on wholemeal toast, and a glass of milk) - all these things make me feel capable of getting through the day, when otherwise I wouldn't necessarily make it to 10am.

How easy it would be to implement them de novo with a 6yo boy I have no idea, probably not easy... but small steps might work.

When I go home to my parents (they have reverted to 'food they like" since the kids left home) and have to eat white pasta covered in salty sauce, meat every day, hardly any vegies or fruit, sugary dessert, sugary breakfast cereal, sweet biscuits, sweet tea - after a day or two I feel like lying on the floor and throwing a toddler tantrum - I feel awful, can't concentrate on anything, want to run around but have no real energy or stamina... UGH.

Food really helps!

BEAUTIFUL just wrote a book in reply to you and 'MN' went bananas when I tried to post (whole thing got deleted in a technical haze) don't have time to re-write. In short look here www.ukfoodguide.net/bestavoided.htm and here www.hacsg.org.uk I cut out gluten (make my own bread as shop bought have several additives not recommended for kids) I never give 'kids' cereals on a school day (he would be like a monkey on speed ) the sugar rush is real and that's a fact. Eye Q strawberry chews or Eskimo Kids - avail from Boots & Tescos. Also, Bassetts Vit C with Zinc orange chews (proven to cut down hyperactivity). He has bacon sarny, porridge or toast for breaky in the week. I never buy any pre-packed foods. Any snacks are artificial additive free - they are out there and you must become an expert at reading the ingredients. Good luck !

BEAUTIFUL - Another mum here who has been thru' exactly this situation with DS. If you search for my name in the archives here, you will find loads of threads asking for help and support.

DS is now 9, and seems to be coming out of this, this term seems to be calming down nicely, and he is actually having full weeks at a time without being given any 'consequences'. That said, he is now taking omega3 supplemants too (we use Brain Boosters from Healthspan)

But dh and I have worried (had sleepless nights) for 4 years about why he wouldn't settle, how his behaviour was affecting his education, what reputation he was getting. I spent £500 on seeing an ed psych, who assured me that DS is essentially normal, but a VERY bright, lively BOY (and our primary school system doesn't necessarily suit bright energetic boys in the early years). I even contemplated home ed for him.

DS does have an IEP at school. It isn't necessarily a track to 'diagnosing' something, it is a means for the school to identify and action strategies for helping your DS cope with class. It's been a good thing for us, not least because we get an opportunity to go in each term and discuss what they are doing, and why they are doing it, and to inject our suggestions (what works at home, for example).

I feel for you, I know it is heartbreaking and frustrating.

Clumsymum Hear, hear !! to both early years education not respecting boys natural development (my words, not yours and also to 'growing out' of so many negative behaviors which I truly believe is exaggerated by expecting small boys and some girls to sit still, listen carefully and conform. Depresses the hell out of me My ds1 was at least 8 before I actually 'liked him' and he began to settle into education.
BEAUTIFUL the IEP is a good thing for you son. Have the school mentioned getting anybody in from 'outside' for assessment purposes?

oh, you're so brilliant. thank you so, so much.

Off now to buy all those supplements you mentioned -- Brain Boosters/Eye Q Strawberry chews, and the Vit C + Zinc.

Thanks for the link to the foods, ICDT. and thanks Clumsymum, for your positive update! Very supportive.

Am talking to the SENCO today. A bit confusing as she told DH yesterday that she had never actually seen DS1 exhibit "unusual" behaviour? Argh! Have been reading about ADHD though and he does seem to have every symptom of it. he has sports club after school today and I am already dreading it on his behalf as he will no doubt roll on the ground/do karate kicks, etc.

Am walking him to school every day now (it's a mile) to try to burn off some of his energy. He runs the whole way! And gave him marmite on toast and a banana for breakfast instead of Frosties. Am really going to pay more attention to his food. I cook every meal from scratch, but I have given in to his love of sugary snacks, thinking the sugar-rush business was nonsense. However, you have all convinced me otherwise!

Thanks again, am really so grateful for all your help. I'd been in BITS over this but am now feeling so much more positive, and like I am loaded with strategies to try out.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart -- really!

Let us know how you get on with SENCO

Beautiful, i am a bit late to your thread but i wanted to tell you that i am another mum with EXACTLY the same kind of 6 year old boy. Fortunatly he is a good sleeper so i get a break from him come 7.30pm, but the rest of the time he is being a power ranger / fiddling about / making things into swords / shouting. His teachers have actually shrugged at me when i asked what else i could do for him from my end. I even wrote a thread about it!

He is a day-dreamer and slow to work at school, but i know is very bright and capeable, but he, like all of the other children on this thread can't see the point of school beyond social-life reasons. He is one of the most popular children in his year and is very funny and gregarious, but when it comes to being quiet, sitting still and doing as he is told he is terrible...

I have read everyone else's advice, but the one thing i implemented at Easter was the food thing. Heres some advice, tell your DS about the food and why you are doing it, rather than keeping quiet and sneaking the changes in. My son is now very proud of his special diet and actively polices himself, turning down Haribo and the like. . He has porridge and toast for breakfast and loads of fruit / cucumber etc in his packed lunch. I have started to make my own flapjacks instead of shop biscuits.

But the 2 best bits of advice are Rocks Organic squash and no other drink other than water or milk. Rocks Organic and for sweets, the ones from M&S are great. No added stuff.

Its also worth mentioning that i went and got my DSs hearing tested and it turns out he has glue ear and so has reduced hearing. He is having grommits in October and they have sat him at the front of the class now. He is having his adenoids out at the same time as there is a link between swollen adenoids and bad behaviour in children. Particularly if your DS snores, is a "mouth breather" and sweats loads in bed at night. If you think thats the case, google "Adenoids Behaviour" and loads comes up about it. It all made sense to me that DSs adenoids must be massive!

One last thing, we give DS "Wellkid" vitamins as they are the only ones that contain absolutely everything wellkid but the main thing for us is that they contain iron as well as Omega3, which most don't. This improves concentration in my DS no end.

Anyway, i've gone on long enough. I have to say that the diet and vits have worked wonders for my DS and he is calmer and more likeable. I also find that the more i shout at him the worse he gets (and i am prone to shouting, a lot ), but a calmer mummy = a calmer DS.

Good luck! xx

BigusBumus -- wow, thank you. All so helpful. Glad to hear your DS is calming down. I'm a shouty Mummy too but am desperately trying to get calmer (going to bed earlier, taking Vit B complex, etc) as he copies me no end.

Can I give him WellKid and the omega3? Probably not. Have just ordered EyeQ and Bassett's Vit C + Zinc online. Will try these for a month. Like the iron idea.

Will get that squash too.
Sorry to hear his teachers are being so hopeless. I think I'm very lucky with DS1's school as they are VERY willing to help him and find new strategies. Is your DS at that same school till he's 7, or 11?

ICANDOTHAT -- just spoke to Senco, she was ADORABLE. Very helpful and soothing and practical. Told her what I'm doing (food, supplements & exercise), and we brainstormed ideas together to help him in the class.

I really couldn't have asked for her to be more helpful.

What really, really helped, though, was the ideas you lot have given me on here. I could ask her about "fiddling toys" for him to have at carpet-time (I'd never heard of these before), visual reminders, and ways to make him feel busier & more important at school. Plus the things you've told me about, for how I could help him at school.

Honestly, it's such a goldmine of ideas and support. Without all of you on here, I'd be in such a panicky mess.

Senco is going to liaise with Schhol Nurse (whom I've spoken to before; also lovely) to give me a referral letter for GP, so i can take DS1 to maybe be assessed.

Plan of action at school is to do his IEP next week, then monitor him till end of the year. If nothing improves, the school will get someone in to look at his behaviour in school.

I'm really glad the meeting went well. 'Things' seem t be moving in the right direction although you can pop him along to your GP off your own back and ask for him to be referred to devt pediatrician ... not sure what would be quicker though, you or the school ? MN is a great place to arm yourself with knowledge that will help you in these kind of meetings. Things crop up that may not have occurred to you and you feel so well equipped. I used to sit and sob with our old SENCO (right old cow who eventually got fired) because I felt useless and ill informed ... not anymore. Phrases like "what are you doing to enable him to access the curriculum?", just roll off my tongue these days ... love it!! Well done to you.

So glad youre feeling more positive Beautiful, (and i'm sure you are beautiful as well)...

Have a nice, peaceful and fun weekend. x

Bigusbumas Blimey, just occurred to me that my ds2 is always taking really deep oral breaths, as if to compensate for not be able to breath through his nose properly. His tonsils are huge, but doc says this is normal in young children. He also sweats like a horse in the night .... hair stuck to his head the minute he doses off. I googled your suggestion and it all falls in line with sleep apnea which I have often wondered about with my ds. I'l mention the exaggerated breathing next time we see the doc. Thanks for the tip night, night

oh my goodness - who has been stalking me and my son..........

this thread could have been written by me - am nearly in tears reading it. We struggle so much with our boy.

What is the link with night sweating - i couldnt find any explaination for it?

helpYOUiWILL I've 'googled' night sweats in children and you get alot on info. Mainly about sleep apnea. How old in your lad?

5yrs. will be 6 in august.

i tried to find info about the sweating but couldnt find a link between them.