Recognising ADHD in children

[Lmccrean]

How do you know what is just naughty behaviour and what is ADHD?

I think DD (6) may have ADHD but unsure what to do. See a doctor? Or is there someone else I should be contacting?

I feel like Im shouting at her all the time atm.

She was sent upstairs to put a vest on under her top (to hide builders bum) 40 mins ago. Ive laid out vest, and asked her in a variety of tones, to get ready. She just cant focus. Theres not even anything in her room to play with (whole other story - but basically she lost all her toys and books earlier because in 2 hours of tidy up time, she just added to the mess, even when I was there trying to give explicit instructions on what to do)

Or maybe Im too relaxed and if I was tougher she would know I mean what I say, and she would just do it! I gave up in the end with the room tidying cause Im exhausted. Im a single mum and really not coping very well atm, and I could actually see myself raising my hand to her

Last year, playing board games seemed to help extend her attention span, but I havent seen any further improvement recently.

Please can anyone give advice or tell me about their experiences x

Hi Lmccrean, does she pay attention when she's especially interested in something? My ds has difficulties with concentrating unless he's very interested, he's 6 also.

How is she at school?

Hopefully someone with knowledge about ADHD will come along in a minute....hope you get a bit of rest today.

Sorry, forgot to add, if you see your GP and mention you have concerns, s/he hopefuly will refer you to a paediatrician who will do a development check and consider if there is anything that needs diagnosis.

Only thing ahe can show interest in is reading. She starts projects like craft of baking (anything messy really!) with amazing enthusiasm but within 5 mins she had wandered off leaving everything sitting out. If Im sitting with her, span is similar - maybe slightly longer as I kind of jolly her along.

At school she is in highest reading group, her spelling are great when done verbally but anything to do with writing is slow going. Her work books are full of half finished pages. She is left handed and does struggle a little with writing neatly, but we are working on that. I dont think its a valid reason / excuse though!

Just chatting a little until someone knowledgeable comes along .... there is a yr 1 little boy at ds's school, his mum says they can't diagnose properly until he's 7, but they are very sure he has ADHD. He often disappears from the classroom and the teacher has had to stop him from running away from school, can't control his impulses.

It's great your dd enjoys books and reading, so she can concentrate when she's especially interested? Is it a problem at school that she doesn't concentrate on anything else? Have you told her teacher you have concerns?

My ds is also left-handed (finds handwriting difficult), and is special needs at school because he has difficulty with social skills, and quite often if asked to do something will wander off and not concentrate. I have wondered myself if he has ADHD.

I really appreciate it chocolate.

She is a reasonably social child - does get quite emotional, but so do I so I figured its either genetic or learned from me!

Def not running out of school - but she talks a lot and distracts other kids. I talked to both this years teacher and last years about it, but neither seemed particularly worried about it. They were very positive about her abilities academically, but she "just needs to focus and stop talking"

I think Ill have a chat with the teacher this week.

Ive just finished clearing out her room. Maybe this is too harsh, but Im at my wits end here (shes is off out with my mum and dad)

I have taken every book, toys, pencil and scrap of paper out of her room - its spotless and so bare its rather sad .

But, plan is if she puts clothes away neatly tomorrow then she can choose one book or toy to bring into her room at 8pm. Lights will go out at 9, with 5 minute warning, so it must be tidied away by then. If its tidied away, and clothes put away, she can keep that toy in her room and choose a second toy the next night and so on up to 5 toys/books. If a toy is not tidied up, it will be taken away, and will start over again. Is that really harsh? Its a double agenda really - taking care of her things and less distraction in her room.

ATM she doesnt sleep until really really late - this is poss adding to the problems, but shes often still awake when Im going to bed at 11 or later, but is up ok in the morning. If theres less toys / books she may sleep earlier. She has intense fear of darkness, so will need to leave a lamp on though.

Are you sure she's getting ENOUGH sleep? I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but mys DSs (one of whom is 6) is much less focused and more stroppy/ annoying when he is tired?

9 pm and still awake at 11 pm sounds late to me for a 6 year old? Could she be over-tired? what happens if she goes to bed at 8 pm? What time does she wake up?

Sounds to me as if she is bright, especially if she is a book-lover! How long has it been that she doesn't drop off to sleep until gone 11pm?

At least you are providing very clear boundaries and if she uderstands what you are doing and why with the toys it could work. If she gets upset and resentful and can't understand the point, it might not work.

I have tried tick charts with little rewards for short periods and that's worked well for us when my ds was hitting. My two, ds 6 and dd 4 need to be nagged to tidy up, so I am on the point of trying a tick chart with them for a while on the tidying up front.

What do your mum and dad think?

Just wondering about something else, do you have an SENCO at school? Maybe they could describe how an ADHD child would behave.

I have also seen issues raised about diet, etc on mumsnet, does she get hyper after eating certain foods or anything like that? I am trying Omega 3 with ds, many people swear by it!

When I suspected my DS may have ADHD I first went to see his teacher (who was also the SENCO) and discussed it with her. Then I went to my GP and asked to be referred. In order to make a dx the child has to show difficulties in 2 or more settings ie home and school.

As an aside, my DS was dx at 7, but before that we'd had trouble over bedtimes because he just wouldn't go to sleep, and was up at the crack of dawn. That may be another symptom, rather than the cause of the problem.

Before I jumped on an ADHD diagnosis I would get an OT evaluation for issues with motor planning and fine motor skills such as handwriting.

And, of course, since it is my field of expertise I always have to recommend an evaluation by a developmental optometrist as 5 out of the 9 classic traits for ADHD are also symptoms of Convergence Insufficiency.

Sleep-wise, some children with sensory issues can have a really hard time going to sleep. Again, an OT can give you some advice on that.

I've heard it said many time that parents of chn with ADHD are absolutely at the end of their tether with their child's behaviour by the time they get to a dx? Do you feel like that all the time or is it just now and again? From your op her behaviour sounds fairly normal for a 6 year old (but obviously I don't know her.)

Jabberwocky - what is convergence Insufficiency? Are you an Ed Psych? (nosy)

I am a developmental optometrist. Convergence Insufficiency is when the eyes don't point well at what you are trying to focus on. this causes fatigue and can be confused with a general "dislike" of reading.

So would this not be picked up then in pre-school checks? That is very interesting Jabberwocky thankyou. Is there any link with scotopic sensitivity?

Wouldn't being a very good reader rule out convergence insufficiency?

Like Jabberwocky suggests, it may be a visual problem, it may also be a hearing problem rather than a behavioural problem.

She may have dyspraxia which would explain difficulties with handwriting and tidying up and giving up on messy play if she can't acheieve was she wants to do.

Firstly though, I would concentrate on getting her to sleep earlier, cut out all but healthy foods and concentrate on having a very calm environment.

Try to enable her to focus on things and not become mentally overloaded with excess noise from radios or TV's and see if this helps.

I would ask you GP to refer her to the paediatric OT's for an assessment.

Both my dds are on the ADHD spectrum - one with the hyperactivity component and one without. I would say that I had suspicions that something wasn't quite right for a LONG time before we got our diagnosis. Dd2 was 6 when she had her diagnosis. If you're at all concerned, talk to your GP and the SENCo at school.

Legacy - she hasnt slept before 9pm since she was 3, and its been 11pm for about the last 18 months. I tried moving it forward before, but she just sat and read or played til normal sleep time. Ive been building up a more structured bedtime routine over last 2 weeks, and hoping this will help me in moving the bedtime forward (already moving it forward 10 mins every other night, but no change in when she dozes off yet). Just hope if it works she doesnt wake earlier - its usually around 7.30 that she wakes herself or with gentle nudge from me.

Chocolate -I told my mum and dad last sunday and they were shocked, but they dont see her more than 3 hours a week and most of that shes off playing with other kids. They still dont know how bad it is though.

Havent confided in any friends cause Im a little sad to admit to them in not coping.

She does get hyper very easily - blackcurrant juice, esp ribena, sweets, and fast food like kfc . Eye-q was the worst - made her extremely short tempered and violent. She told me she had so much energy she needed to burst! I stopped them and a few days later she was back to normal.

I make most food myself though so I know whats in it, and we do eat oily fish, so def getting her omega 3

Im not entirely sure what senco is / does, but assuming a specialist in schools? I know one of my mindees gets extra help with reading with a different teacher, so maybe thats her..

And jabberwocky whats an OT?? I dont think its Convergence whatsit - she reads and reads and reads - has read 20 horrible history / horrible science books in last 10 days.

cornsilk She is a wonderful, polite, loving child - a joy to be with...as long as I dont ask her to do something. I cant remember the last time she got her shoes on the first time I asked, even when we were getting ready for cinema yesterday and our lift was at the door, she still wandered about aimlessly while her friend who is a few months older, was ready and all.

Think Ive answered everyone.... I really appreciate everyones input

My son is ADHD and some so called "healthy" foods can send him hyper so beware. For him milk, bread, citrus fruit, cereal and fresh fruit juices are a trigger. He was seen by a paediatrician who put him on an exclusion diet which helped his concentration. I knew there was something wrong from him being a baby (he NEVER slept) but was initially told by his paediatrician that he'd seen worse so it took a very long time to get a DX.

poohbah She gets an hour tv / pc time at home, per day. (even then, when watching tv, she will be drawing or playing with polly pocket or whatever at the same time)

I am a childminder, so a calm house before 5pm is not going to happen, unfortunately. (I encourage active play - no tv or videogames) I only started cm in jan, so its not the cause of the problems, tho could be adding to them.

I had mentioned dyspraxia to the health visitor when dd was 4 as I had some concerns re clumsiness and pencil control, but was told she would more than likely grow out of it. I got the wee workbooks with dot to dot etc to try to improve her writing skills and she can do them ok.

thanks mrz Ill maybe start a wee diary of exactly whats happening / what shes eating. Even if I cant see a pattern, Im sure it would help with assessment.

Must be very hard for you / your son not having those foods - you mentioned everything my dd has for breakfast... How did you get on? Do you gradually re-introduce foods or is it likely to be lifelong exclusion?

Lmccream SENCO stands for Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator, as far as I know there is one in every school, a teacher who deals with special needs and gives advice to other teachers, in my ds's school the SENCO had alot of input with him in reception.

In in NI, and there seems to be a lot of differences between here and schools on the mainland UK. I will chat to teacher or principal. I used to go to the same school and the principal was always very involved with the kids.

Good Luck Let us know how you get on ....

Her bedtime sounds very hard-you must be knackered. Good luck.

Thanks again everyone, for your help. Great to know Im not alone

How come its when you are most exhausted, you need to put the most effort in?!