Recognising ADHD in children

[Lmccrean]

How do you know what is just naughty behaviour and what is ADHD?

I think DD (6) may have ADHD but unsure what to do. See a doctor? Or is there someone else I should be contacting?

I feel like Im shouting at her all the time atm.

She was sent upstairs to put a vest on under her top (to hide builders bum) 40 mins ago. Ive laid out vest, and asked her in a variety of tones, to get ready. She just cant focus. Theres not even anything in her room to play with (whole other story - but basically she lost all her toys and books earlier because in 2 hours of tidy up time, she just added to the mess, even when I was there trying to give explicit instructions on what to do)

Or maybe Im too relaxed and if I was tougher she would know I mean what I say, and she would just do it! I gave up in the end with the room tidying cause Im exhausted. Im a single mum and really not coping very well atm, and I could actually see myself raising my hand to her

Last year, playing board games seemed to help extend her attention span, but I havent seen any further improvement recently.

Please can anyone give advice or tell me about their experiences x

My son would get cravings and I would come down on a morning to find he;d eaten a whole loaf of bread or a family sized box of cornflakes (dry) it was a case of working with the hospital to find triggers and then finding alternatives for him ... I nearly forgot anything contain sunflower oil caused him problems so we ended up with rapeseed oil which is fine.
My son only slept 20 minutes a night usually in 5 min stints so we were all exhausted and ended up sleeping in shifts to keep him quiet while the other slept.

Good Luck

cornsilk, it's different from scotopic sensitivity but that is also something to consider with reading issues.

lmc, OT = occupational therapist. Very helpful in ruling out lots of things that could be going on.

Thanks Jabberwocky. What are the signs to look out for with it? Can children be referred to an optometrist through school?

My brother was one of the first diagnosed cases in Britain with ADHD

From what I remember he was ALWAYS hyper. When he was younger the family found him funny and he was always centre of attention.

As he got older his behaviour worsened. He made my life hell ( 2yrs younger than me )

Could not sit still

Always wanted to be outside

No concentration/attention span

Lying all the time

Developed mild Tourettes

Had nervous ticks

Fighting in school

No sense of danger or right/wrong, didn't care about consequences i.e. always breaking his arm in some stupid way.

Agression against me and my mum followed by total remorse.

My mum took him to the docs so many times over the years and he was finally referred to a counsellor who was wicked. He was put on Ritalin which did help but only when he took.

Unfortunately I feel my little bro slipped through the net as it really wasn't well known in Britain at the time ( about 15 years ago ) My mum took videos in the school to try and help them understand how he needed to be dealt with and she was ignored. ( single mum

He ended up stopping his ritalin at 16, started smoking canabis, went out one night and stole a scouter/moped, crashed it and nearly died. He ended up severing all the nerves to his arm and can't use the whole arm anymore.

As he has got older (25 now ) he has calmed down but he is total pot head and doesn't have a job. I actually think the weed calms him down although do not agree with it )

it is hereditry on the male side which makes sense as he is just like my waster of a father, Rarer for girls to get it.

Things are much better now so I' sure you and your son will get all the help you need.

Good luck.

Sorry I misread - your DD not son.

Also - certain foods/drinks would make him worse like vimtoe, skittles etc. So we also tried to control his diet on advice form docs no E colours etc.

Gillyan, that is so sad about our brother , is there no help for adults with adhd?

lmccrean, there are some online assessment sites you can go on to check how many of the ADHD features your dd has. Tbh, your dd sounds more like my niece, who does not have ADHD, than other kids I know who do. Incidentally my niece does have some hearing problems so it's worth considering that. But she generally can just get lost in her own world. Her priorities are clearly not the same as her mum's, so if she's sent upstairs to do her teeth you can go and find her 20 mins later and she will be reading a book or something and will have completely forgotten what it was she went up to do.

I do know how difficult it is to have a kid who doesn't go to sleep until late. My ds2 was like that last year and I was despairing. It removed all the time I had at the end of the day either to spend with dp or just on my own. And he would be bouncing off the walls right up to the point when he dropped of. For him, though, I suspect all the ADHD type symptoms were linked to his anti-epileptic medication. Now we have that sorted out he is a lot better. He still needs one of us standing over him before he gets dressed, however. And he can be very impulsive - he scratched his best friend last week just because they disagreed about what game to play .

I don't know if you have access to a copy of 'Little Angels' by William and Martha Sears, but there's a section in it about ADHD and I found lots of their advice very helpful whether or not my son has an official diagnosis. Like making sure a child has your attention before you give instructions (instead of just shouting upstairs to get dressed) and giving very simple, one-step instructions. I'm sure you're doing lots of them already but I liked their approach, basically giving the child a chance to do their best. Removing distractions was another one!

Gillyan, I'm interested to note that your brother didn't care about consequences. When ds1 was the same age as ds2 is now, he responded very well to discipline with a 'choices and consequences' approach. I could say to ds1, "if you do a then x will happen but if you do b then y will happen," and he really thought about the consequences of what he did. Ds2 just doesn't get it. I can tell him, "carry on doing that and I won't read you a bedtime story", but he will just carry on and then get really sad that he didn't get a story. It's like that bit of his mind doesn't make the connections it should do. And he's always having accidents, or jumping on one of us and hurting us (accidentally), and then doing it again even if he's hurt us the first time. I don't know if this specific behaviour is to do with the meds or not, tbh.

sorry, just to clarify, the online sites won't provide a real assessment of whether your dd has ADHD but may give you an idea of whether to pursue it further.

here's one I found just by googling (haven't checked if it's a good one or not):
www.hyperactivekids.com/sections/library/addadhdsymptoms.html

Fish oil? anybody suggested it before, if so i appologize but i'm in a hurry and just scanned this through fast ...

My daughter has not yet been diagnosed with ADHD even if i suspected it for some time. She is restless, can't wait, can't concentrate, jumps up and down in front of the tv, in school, in the mall, wherever, and all the rest. She is at least!!!! hyperactive and having concentration problems because of this.

But a couple of weeks after we started with the fish oil in the morning, the teacher told us she could see great improvment in our DD. I also give her 2 teaspoons of lecitin every morning with her milk (to help with concentration problems). There are great articles on the net about fish oil, sorry i don't have the time to look for a link for you.

deeja Hiya, I'm sure there must be something out there for adults but I think he has mainly grown out of it. He grew out of the tourettes and the nervous ticks etc.

He has just wasted his life....since the accident he has had so many problems with the arm. He's had lots of operations and discussions of amputation. Even though his arm is dead the nrain sometimes thinks its not and he has a LOT fo pian with it. He is on morphine patches to deal with the pain but he says having a 'spliff' before bed helps excuse??

He doesn't drink at all as he just can't mix alcohol with the morphine.

he's not a bad lad really, he has done voluntary work over the years and he had a daughter with a girl he had known 5 mins. The 'girl' aged 33, him 23 at the time. he has since split with her thank god, and he has done really well to find himself a private rented flat and he is a really good Dad. He really is and he is ten times better at parneting ( to a point ) than the mother.

The ex has 2 other kids by 2 different men, none of whom have ever hung around, my brother could recognise the ADHD in one of her boys and he tried really hard to help him.

he says now he can see what a total nightmare he was as a kid and feels awful on my mum and me.

Anyhow, I don't think he really needs help with the ADHD now, more just living with the consequences of what has happened to him as a result.

It is rerally sad, we were both brought up the same way and I can see my mum did as much as she could to sort him out but it was beyond her control. It was so bad that she suffered depression and wanted to kill herself and as a result I was quite over looked.

I have a good job and did well in further ed etc. My brother could of been so much more, he's such a good looking lad too and now he's always going to be disabled.

i think there is always a certain element of choice though with him, especially as he has got older, he has chosen a life style for himself that I find hard to stomach.

Hey ho.

mummypig the consequences thing carrys on right through life I think. He just doesn't make sensible choices or think anything ahead.

At school age it was choosing to fight back - trying gas!

He left home at 16 and chose to live in a hostel and stop taking his meds.

He disappeared for 3 yrs and chose to live in a squat with a drug dealer......

He laso then chose to get back in touch and try and sort his life out.

he then met a woman and moved in with her and her 2 kids within wk and thought it would be a good idea to have a baby with her!!!!!

Then he left and got himself sorted.

Even last week I got a message off him telling me he had got a £400 dog...for his flat....then ysterday I get a message saying he's had to get rid of it, he thinks NOTHING through.

It's exhausting, even mow at his age of 25 I just think I will always be here to pick up the pieces for him and just nod and grin and his daft ideas.

The only good thing I can really say is that he is a good Dad. Thank godness.

fishoil yes I've heard that helps too.

Sorry for all the typos, my DD is climbing all over me!

Ill have a look later for assessments - I did the one you linked to, but after filling it all out, I got an error message! But most of the answers were yes / all the time.

We cant do fish oils as it makes her worse, but she does eat oily fish. There must be something else in the capsules that she cant handle.

On plus side, we started the plan last night. She tried to walk off about 5 times in the 5 mins it took to explain it, but in the end it worked well and she was asleep at 10.45. Shes excited about picking another item tonight and talking positively about the plan She suggested a reward system where everytime I have to ask her to do something, after the first time, she loses a penny. Have said Ill think about it.

Also this morning has written lots of wee post-it notes and stuck them around the house - "I love mummee" and " I want a happy shout free and tide (think thats tidy) home" and little reminders to herself.

joburg Ill have a look for out for lecitin, thanks

I definitely agree with other poster who have suggested ruling out physical causes, such as hearing and eyesight. Also, does she have hayfever? I ask because my DS (6), who in many ways sounds similar, had a speech assessment last year (he has rhinitis - chronic hayfever)and the speech therapist said that a lot of his behaviour, like poor attention span and general agitation, is common in children with chronic hayfever.

He also has frequent glue ear (linked to his allergy) and so often can't hear well. I often get asked if he's ADHD, but he has been assessed and is not.

HTH.

Her hearing is definately ok (whisper chocolate from across the room and she comes flying over lol) Its more like she cant always focus on what Im saying, even without audible distractions. Like she might ask a question halfway through my sentance and the question is often unrelated to the conversation. Like theres so much stuff in her head and it just spills out.

She hasnt got hayfever, but does have sensitivities, that piriton helps with, but they are almost identical to mine. More rashes though, so not sure it could affect it. Will make a note of that though.

Is autism genetic? Her dads brother has it and epilepsy, although it was put down to being dropped on his head an an infant Will certainly look into that too.

Books to try

understanding girls with ad/hd -kathleen nadeau

the girls guide to ad/hd-beth walker(dd 15 reads this and finds it helpful)

you mean im not lazy,stupid or crazy-kelly/ramundo(this is for me,i see myself in this)

one point,if you really feel it is a problem, and you are being objective, tw dint let yourself be sidetracked by doubting gps. Ask for a referral, if you leave it too long (like i have )shell fall between child and adult services up to 16, and over18.
(ok shes only little now but ive had queries since my dd was a preschooler.

The question is still open about genetics and autism but most people think that there is probably a genetic susceptibility. So, there may be a gene or several genes that, if exposed to certain environmental toxins at critical points in development could cause autism. But by the very nature of this theory it will be incredibly difficult to actually work out if it is indeed so.

FWIW, seizure disorders are frequently seen in children/adults with ASD but again the clear linkage remains to be found.

THere was stuff in the news last week about genetic links to autism...

genes have key role in autism

LmcCream I am pleased your plan worked, it is very clear to your dd and she's responded well.

Hello LMCCrean, I am in exactly the same position as you with my DS who is also 6. He is bright and very funny, also very musical. But he has the same problems and over the Easter Hols i was in tears at his behaviour. He is a fidget, leaping, jumping all the time. Cannot stop talking, even to himself if i send him to his room... He needs really clear instructions to follow tasks, and has concentration issues, especially if its something he's not terribly good at (writing / art). But give him his Nintendo DS and he can concentrate fully for over an hour on it !???). He also answers me back a lot and NEVER EVER does something the first time i ask him to do it. Takes at least 5 asks, sometimes loads more.

If i was to introduce any more discipline into the house it would be verging on abuse! (thats tongue in cheek by the way, but i am the strictest of all my friends with their kids. But not smacking tho)

I don't want to label him ADHD straight away... I have researched (online) Autism, Aspergers and ADHD, which seems the most likely, as he is incredibly popular at school and very gregarious and social, which doesn't seem to fit with the other 2. But then again he doesn't have sleep probs. Sleeps 7.30pm- 7am every day....

SO, i have done a few things. Firstly he has had his hearing checked at the hospital, and its been disovered that he has glue-ear and reduced hearing. (Not that i ever noticed this, as his hearing seemed fine to me, shows what i knew!) Therefore he is booked in to have grommits put in. At the same time they are going to take out his addenoids, as the hearing specialist said he thought they were enlarged (his breathing is very Darth Vader-esque) and aparently this can have a dramatic effect on behaviour afterwards, due to sleeping better (he has mild sleep apnea).

Also i have cut out ALL E number colours. He is terrible after squash, fruit shoots, McDonalds BBQ sauce, skittles, Wotsits, hideous sweets like Juicy Drop Pops etc. He is on a very healthy fresh food diet and drinks that Rocks Organic squash, and eats M&S sweets when appropritae (they have no e-colours).

Finally i have been giving him the WellKid multivitamins, (although they have Omega 3 oils in), but the main thing is that they have Iron in them where most don't, apart from Minidex. This helps him to concentrate so much better.

Anyway, we've been doing this for 3 weeks now, and what an improvement, its amazing!

Mind you i have also tried to accept that i have a child who NEEDS me attention wise a lot more than the other 2, and that has helped in my beaviour towards him. Less getting cross and shouty = a calmer son.

So try these things and see if it makes a difference first, particularly getting her hearing checked. (I had no idea he couldn't hear! He was sitting at the back of the class with his back to the teacher before and is now at the front facing her.)

Phew, sorry that was so looooooooong!

I had not seen that snorkle. Thanks for the link.

We received our DD's sensory integration test results! It proved desastrous, she scored lower than the acceptable rates in absolutely everything ... anyway, my point is, the psycholog explained to us that DD's hyperactivity might be just a cause of all these! While ADHD could also be the cause for the sensory integration difficulties, it could as well be the other way around. She gave us a very clear picture of what is going on in DD's brain like this: 'imagine a busy junction where all the traffic lights suddenly went off!' and this is why her hyperactivity, lack of concentration, etc. She's always 'on the go' because she gets mixed signals that her brain cannot properly process and put in order. So we will start with occupational therapy first and see if this helps and only afterwards, in a few months, consider ADHD seriously. Until then, again, as i said before, fish oil seems to help more or less. Might this be something to consider? Hopefully not, but it never hurt to test and find out.

Thanks everyone. So great to hear all the different experiences and have this place to come and express whats going on, as still not comfortable talking to friends atm.

I was at doctors this am and briefly asked doc what she thought (anything to take my mind off smear, lol) and she said what I was doing (diary / adjusting sleep times / watching food) was good and to work hard at it for a month before adding any supplements (reckons her diet is fine atm) And if my end June theres still major issues and nothing settling, then I should make an appointment to see her.

DD fell asleep at 9.40 last night, but woke earlier (as in, sleeping the same amount of time, but the times have shifted) Will persevere though, and maybe leave a book or something in her room after shes fallen asleep, for her to read in the morning til its time to get dressed. Have told her that if shes goes to sleep without fuss (ie. stays in her room with main light off) all week, then on sunday she can have her cd player back, with cds of my choice (chilled stuff, not the power ballads and goth metal she likes to listen to during the day...) and it must be turned off 1/2 hours after lights out. Thats her "rule", and I think its a good compromise - she needs to have some input somewhere, I reckon!

joburg and BB its great to hear that you have a plan in place too, and hope that it all goes well for you both