should I trust my own judgement?

[tigermoth]

I don't know where to post this, nearly put it under the special needs topic.

My 3.8 month old son has no developmental problems that we know of. When he started nursery in September (a week after his 3rd birthday) he settled in quickly. I regularly asked his key worker and others about his progress and behaviour and they said he was fine. I was very proactive because my oldest son was hard to handle at this age. I was repeatedly told his behviour was normal for his age (no big hitting/biting/attention problem etc.) He wasn't keen on sitting and drawing (but then he was very young) and he was very lively, but he did focus on construction activities and imaginative play.

For practical reasons we changed nurseries in January. Again my son settled in happily, but I am getting increasingly unhappy with the nursery's attitude to my son.

On the first day, I gave his new key worker a run down of his old nursery's report - 'lively but normal'. I suggested she might like to contact his old keyworker. I got the distinct impression that this wouldn't be happening and the more I talked to the new keyworker (also the head of the nursery) the more I didn't like her. Couldn't put my finger on why.

Just 10 days into term she told me she wanted an SEN advisor to see my son. I asked why? how could they have come to this conclusion after less than two weeks? There had been no incidents, apart from my son being involved in a small snowball fight. She said that they found him difficult to control - although he would sit at some activities, he also ran around a lot and didn't respond quickly when they asked him not to climb on things. She assured me he was not the only one - two or three other children in the class of 16 would also be seeing the SEN advisor. I was not happy, firsty about her under two week assessment of my son, and secondly about her zero interest in referring back to his old nursery. I felt she had an agenda and was not asking my permission about him seeing the SEN advisor, but telling me this would be happening or else. Anyway, I swallowed my misgivings and went along with it for the sake of my son.

A few weeks later my son had his three and a half year assessment at our GPs. He passed all the tests but unfortunately threw an unusually big tantrum at the end of the session, while I was chatting to the Health visitor. I duly reported all this to the nursery as they had requested.

I had another meeting with the keyworker and she suggested my son had a hearing problem, that he had poor eye contact, he was clumsy - could I arrange a hearing test and also could he have a second three and a half year check up this time conducted at home? I phoned my gp. The nursery workers kept asking me if I had dates for these appointments, then asked if I could phone again, mentioning the nursery's concerns to make it a matter of urgency. The appointments were duly set up.

A health visitor who knows my son well came to visit us, did the 3.5 test again - my son passed it - and then spent an hour and a half observing my son and I together while talking over possible problems. He said my son's eye contact and motor skills were fine and agreed with the old nursery's verdict - he was lively but normal. My son's hearing test was fine too and the audiologists who saw him did not think he had a major behaviour problem. Like lots of little children he heard what he wanted to hear.

My HV had also explained that my son's new nursery may be seeking extra funding for staff and this is why they will want to get likely children in front of an SEN advisor. It strengthens their case. But the end result is good for all - higher staff levels benenfit all the children.

I reported the results back to the nursery and gave them permission to contact my HV if they wanted to discuss things directly. But I also wanted to be kept fully informed. I asked the staff if they still thought my son's behaviour was beyond normal and the answer was yes.

We decided it would be good if I stayed with my son in the nursery for an hour or so a few days a week to observe him. I did this and IMO he was one of four or five lively boys. He did run around but also happily focussed on some of the play activities (surely few 3.8 year olds focus on all of them?) and he was pretty good at sharing his toys and cooperating. He certainly got on well with the other children. When another boy repeatedly tried to steal some plasticine balls he had made he told an adult, rather than shoving him away. He lined up when he was asked to and put up his hand to answer questions - some of the time. Of couse it's difficult to know what he is like when I am not there, but I have been told he will sit and be obedient as I witnessed, but just not all the time.

A week or so later my HV phoned to tell me he was cancelling an appointment to come in to observe my son at nursery and would rebook in May. I told him I knew nothing about this and he was surprised.

I was very shocked and angry that the nursery had gone behind my back when I had been so open with them. I had been in the nursery so much that there had been ample opportunity to tell me. When I collected my son that day I told the key worker about the cancelled appointment and asked her to tell me if they had any dealings with OUR health visitior - just as I'd asked. She knew I was angry.

That's the background here here are the issues I'd like opinions on ( please )

I feel my own perception of my son is at odds with the nursery's perception. I do not feel my son's behavour is beyond normal and am worried he is getting singled out even if it is for the greater good of the nursery ie increasing staff levels. Should I go along with the nursery's view?

I'd be interested to hear from those who have special needs children (behaviour issues). I get the impression that usually it's the parent who feels their child has special needs and it's the nursery /school etc who are slow to accept this. I seem to have the opposite problem. Do you think I should trust my own judgement?

Just to complicate things further, I have always thought my youngest son is easier and better behaved than my oldest son was at 3/4 years. I definitely do not feel so stressed looking after him. My dh, on the other hand, disagrees with me and says my oldest son was an easier child.

Help!

I would say stick with your instincts. My DS has ADHD & I "knew" there was something long before anyone else would agree with me. He was actually one of about 5 older boys at playgroup at 4.5 years old who were causing problems for the leader with their "boisterousness" & she just put it down to being ready for school.

Are you able to move your DS to another nursery? This one seems to be following their own agenda & I would be concerned about their attitude towards your DS if it continues. If they start to treat him as if he has a problem will that create one? Good luck.

tigermoth ... just wanted to give my support ... have no experience about this but I know how I would feel if someone started saying my son needed an SEN assessment when I think he is just a normal 3.5 year old.
Trust your instincts and stick by your guns about having them keep you informed about contact with the HV ... not telling you was out of order IMO!
Hope someone gives some good pointers for you soon ...

Tigermoth, not much time but I'd be cross in your position and yes, the short answer is I would trust your own judgement. It's not just your judgement though, it's backed up by your HV and GP. It sounds as if the nursery have a problem, not you and I'd be angry about their behaviour in your position. They have gone behind your back, communicated poorly and been unprofessional. This is all my first reaction anyway on reading your post. Will add later if I can. Sympathy.

Nurseries can be so caque (going behind your back, I mean). I don't have a special needs child, but I do have a 3y+5 month old lively/stroppy DS, and feel like that gives me some insight.

Isn't a SEN sort of a life-time sentence? I think I would avoid it if at all possible. Is it possible your son is being more boisterous precisely because he's new, he doesn't know the staff, doesn't respect their authority yet, and he's showing off to other boys? Could you ask the nursery to give it another month or 2 to see if your son settles down?

Hi tigermoth, firstly, I haven't got a child with special needs, but I do have a lively 3.9 year old (girl), and your ds sounds very normal to me (whatever "normal" means - he certainly sounds like her). I am really amazed at the "proactiveness" of your nursery - are they like this with the other children who are lively? I know we should all care about the greater good of society, but personally when it comes to my children, I become very selfish and this would really bug me - is this a nursery attached to a school, or is it a private nursery? What I'm getting at is what effect does your reaction now have on your son's future there? Does all this go forward into reception with him? Or will that be a fresh start? So can you afford to tell them to stuff their "help"?
Sorry, not coming up with many answers here (wish I was as wise as others on mumsnet), just random thoughts, but my gut feeling is that you know your son best, and you DO NOT come across as one of those mothers who thinks the sun shines out of their childrens' behinds and can't see anything but good in them. So go with your judgement is my conclusion.
As for your dh - is it just that he has spent more time with ds2 at this age than he did with ds1 at this age?(vaguely think not, so could be barking up the wrong tree) I know my dh sometimes makes sweeping statements like this based on not much fact and frankly it's b annoying!
Sorry, not much there, just a random assortment of my thoughts, hope something was of some use.

Tigermoth, I think your nursery has behaved outrageously and I am really incensed for you.

You should definately trust your own judgement (and that of your HV, GP, audiologist and old nursery staff). I just sit here thinking "What exactly are they looking for???" as I can't see anything in what you've described that would suggest he had a behavioural problem. You also have ds1 to compare him to, so I'm sure that you would realise if your younger son had noticably different behaviour. Maybe your dh thinks your oldest one was easier to deal with because there was only one child then to think about.

How well trained are the staff at the nursery? Are they qualified nursery nurses, have they done training on behavioural problems? If they are just doing this to get extra funding I think it is digusting. Yes, all the children would benefit from extra staff but it should not be at the expense of your child being inappropriately labelled as having special needs, or the anxiety and stress they are putting you through by suggesting this.

I worked with children and young adults who have special needs and the first thing I would do would be to contact their old staff as they have a much better knowledge of their behaviour and abilities than I could possibly have after a few weeks. I would say that they would also have a much better knowledge than a one off assessment by an SEN advisor as that assessment would very much depend on the mood your son is in on the day.

Do you know any parent of the other children who are due to be seen by the SEN advisor? Perhaps you could see what they think.

It sounds like you have bent over backwards to be helpful, and it also sounds like you have a very realistic picture of your son's behaviour. Definately trust your own judgement.

Tigermoth your son sounds exactly like mine (3.5) and your nursery sounds exactly like the first and second nurseries ds has been to. I trusted my instincts and ds has been flourishing at this third nursery. Yes my son was delayed a little bit with his speech but other than that he's a normal toddler. The first nursery wanted to bring portage people in. Turns out its more a discipline problem (ie they didn't take charge of him). Luckily you've got a good HV (which I didn't). I know what you're going through but all I can suggest is try another nursery if its possible. IME they expect all toddlers to be like the best behaved ones and don't like it if there are any that are too boistrous. They want an easy life. Go with your own perceptions after all you know him best. I remember feeling like I was going round in circles wondering if I was missing something that was really obvious. I do have some good friends with toddlers the same age and they all reassured me he was normal. Good luck.

Again, nothing concrete to add, just to say that I would be spitting nails in your position. They're calling in SEN for a three year old who doesn't always respond and concentrate on everything? Give me a break. I find that utterly gobsmacking. My ds exhibited a lot of quite autistic tendencies at that age, and the nursery were, I'm sure, fully aware of it, but never tried to do anything than gently hint. He's completely outgrown all of it now, had done by the end of his first year at school. I'm not suggesting your ds sounds like that at all, just trying (clumsily) to make the point that 3 year olds will exhibit loads of different sorts of borderline abnormal behavioural traits that they will grow out of. Trust your instincts, and as others have suggested, I would be very inclined to look round at other nurseries. In Scotland, at least, the nursery writes a quite detailed report that goes to the school when a child starts, and as emsiewill says, you don't want to be in a position where an (erroneous) assessment follows him to school. Good luck, and give them hell

thanks for your messages - I haven't got long now to reply will pick up on points I miss later on. Thanks for being so supportive.

It's good to have written this down. It's made me think about things hard. I have realised that at the crux of this issue is the fact that I just don't trust my son's keyworker. Unfortunately she is the nursery manager, so even if my son has another keyworker, she would still be in charge.

Not being told about our HV's visit to the nursery has comfirmed my feelings on this. This is the 5th nursery I have had dealings with and this is the first time I have felt antipathy towards a member of staff. Because I don't trust her, I will find it hard to believe anything she says, even if she is right. I am worried that she is hiding things from me, too - perhaps she has other issues of concern that she won't speak about to me about but has relayed to my HV. Come to that, how do I know that other children in this class will also be seeing the SEN advisor? I only have the keyworker's word on this, and she only told me this once right at the beginning of term. Since then it hasn't been mentioned. Of course the nursery can't name names and it's not really something I can ask other parents about, so I have to trust the keyworker on this. For all I know, other parents might have refused her suggestion.

I am OK (just) about my HV visiting my son at nursery. A bit concerned though, that when he does, it's just him and the staff. I might ask if I can also be there and if they don't want me around, can both the keyworker and HV sign a written report so I know exactly what was covered and what was agreed.

Luckily this nursery is not attached to my son's future school. He already has a place at the same school as my oldest son and he's looking forward to going there in Janaury 2004. It's a great little school, lovely reception class, my son already knows the teachers a little, so I feel we only have to suffer two terms of this nursery before we are clear. Since my son is happy to go here I feel it would be a shame to uproot him again. But I don't want him to start his new school with an inaccurate report from his nursery!

It's great to hear so many views on this, and thanks especially to CER and tallula who have direct experpience of SEN children. I will be back later when I have more time.

Tigermoth I think you should absolutely trust your own judgement, you know your own son best, and the nursery sees him for such a small amount of time. It might be worth knowing that if they call in a SEN it doesn't always follow that anything will be done. The SEN will decide if he/she thinks your son would benefit from any help in the nursery, though from what you say it sounds very unlikely. You could try contacting the SEN and asking what is likely to be done,to see if that will help ease your mind. Kyliebump used to work for the LEA in the statementing special needs area, maybe you should put out a call for her advice?

tigermoth- baby in one arm so excuse lack of capitals.

As you probably know ds1 is autistic. I had concerns from abut 18 months and his first nursery raised concerns at about 22 months. Signs were very subtle- but their handling of the situation was frankly appalling and I removed him about a week later. He now attends a mainstream nursery which is fantastic, but I told them he was probably asd when he joined- so no problems there with communication between yself and nursery.

First- yes trust your judgment. If you think he's fine he almost certainly is. You don't sound like you're burying your head in the sand.

So choices? Well either move nursery! If you stay maybe let them involve the professionals to keep them quiet. Someone earlier in thread describes being sen as a lifetime sentence. Frankly that's not true! Parents of sen kids generally have to battle for every absolutely necesary service- it's not in anyone's interest to diagnose a child when there's nothing wrong as they cost money. For example we have been battling for over 2 years to get a speech and language therpaist for a 4 year old who can't say a single comprehenisble word (except daddy). We are now trying to get OT for him- his fine motor skills have been assessed as being at a 12-18 momths level. We've been waiting a year and I've been told we'll be waiting at least another 2. i just can't see them (being the HA/LEA) rushing to agree to a nurseries assessment without proper assessments!

The staff ratio thing sounds a bit suspect to me as well. We are currently trying to secure extra funding for my non-verbal 4 year old son and believe me it is not easy. The LEA are not keen to provide extra help for any length of time- and there are other obviously needy children attending the nursery with no extra funding (they attend the local SEN nursery as well and are heading to special school- still no extra funding). What I'm saying is I don't think the nursery would get extra funding that easily. Even with reports supporting the application for exta help by the pre-school advisory teacher the nursery is only getting support for my son- and that would have ceased this month if I hadn't stamped my foot, screamed down the phone and sent several stroppy letters!

What may have happened is that the key worker may have gone on a half day course and have become a bit over-excited about armchair diagnoses- dangerous indeed! You are right that parents of children with subtle special needs often have to battle for years for diagnosis.

I wouldn't worry too much about pros coming to see your child. DS1 has an army of them visiting him at nursery. They just slot into normal sessions, he doesn't get stressed by it.

So if i was you - decide whether you want him to stay there. But I wouldn't stress too much about him- or ven how they handle it. They won't get very far!

my ds attended a private nursery from when he was 2 years of age. His keyworkers never once raised any concerns about his behaviour and his developement. I however thought that there was something wrong with him but couldn't pinpoint what it was exactly. When ds reached 3 years of age he attended a state nursery for 5 sessions a week aswell as going to the day nursery in the mornings. Within a couple of months concerns had been raised about his behaviour and his developement. I was quite upset at the time because I felt that the day nursery should have picked up on his problems even though I had voiced my concerns. My ds went to see an audiologist no problems with his hearing and he had his eyes tested, again no problems. He was also seen by an educational psychologist and according to his key worker he performed brilliantly on the day, typical. It took us a further 2 years to pinpoint his problems. Nearly all the health professionals who came into contact with him said he was an unusual case. Eventually it turned out to be ADD, he is now 7 years old and it's taken us over 2 years to get him a SEN statement. From what you have written about your ds he sounds like a normal, healthy, happy 3 year old. You are absolutely right in saying it's the parents that know if the child has special needs.
It does sound very likely that the school is seeking extra funding for staff.
I would definitely stick with your own views, you seem an incredibly perceptive person and would be the first person to question any problems with your ds. I would seriously think about moving ds to another nursery if possible. Good luck.

Got to say trust your own judgement. I'm currently having problems with nursery over DS not yet 4. He's very boisterous and won't conform - part of problem is that he is very bright (see my thread about getting him into school early), I also think part of problem is that he is compared to lots of quiet compliant children in his group, where as he has been actively encouraged to be an individual and choose things for himself, conformity is not something I would want to foist on any small child, and any sensitive nursery would be able to handle the differences. My HV immediately said to me when I spoke to her 'what has changed at nursery' as he was perfectly fine and normal at home - and on reflection his group had just accomodated some much younger children who had challenging behaviour patterns - huge tantrums, biting, spitting etc etc - so I have encouraged DS to keep away from these children as he was being tarred with the same brush when he was only retaliating to aggressive behaviour. (Part of this being that he is very tall and therefore an easy target). Hope that this helps, you are not alone and there are lots of us in the same boat - although at the time it first happens you feel very isolated and picked on. LOLxx

Tigermoth, go with your own instincts. You know your child (who sounds an adventurous pickle, I'll never forget your comment about trying to go to a public loo..)

Your dh may be suffering from time-induced amnesia about the differences in your children, I know when we have babies & toddlers visiting, mine will frequently comment that he'd forgotten about particular aspects of behaviour (rose coloured spectacles etc)

You seem to be having to deal with too many fronts at the moment, hope that things calm down for all of you soon and your family can just enjoy life.

Oh, Tigermoth! He is FINE. He is a comical, busy, lively, normal, sweet little guy...as endorsed by your GP and HV, who have both known him longer than the nursery staff. I'm sorry, but I agree with many others who say that there is a problem with his keyworker here. I think it is bad practice to have any nursery manager as a keyworker for individual children - how can they remain objective and helpful to both parties when conflicts such as this arise? I think it is pretty dubious of this nursery to wangle extra staff by flinging SEN statements around - zebra said this is a label that can stick and she is right. Thank goodness he's off to a proper school before long.
Your dh spent more time as primary carer for ds1, I recall you saying. With the 5 year age gap and the situation not applying this time round, I would not mind betting that the passage of time has had an effect there!
So no advice, just a disbelieving sigh that with so many families and children out there in real need of support and SEN statementing, you are having to fight the "professionals" off with pitchforks. Although it might be worth insisting you change keyworkers for his remaining two terms, just so you can be sure that this is not a case of one person's quirks applying. I also have a tiny suspicion that your very accessibility and willingness to listen and play fair has given this woman extra mileage where your son is concerned.

Marina, I think you've hit the nail on the head. Tigermoth is paying the price for trying so hard ot be a good, caring and involved parent - the nursery have jumped on it with far too much enthusiasm. As someone else has said, perhaps they've just been on a course about this sort of thing and just want to try out their new "skills".

tigermoth - if your ds is "uncontrollable" in any way at his nursery, surely it is the nursery's fault and a problem they need to address, as he is perfectly manageable at home. They don't need sen helpers, they need either a more realistic view of what is normal or more effective methods of managing the behaviour of small children.

As a parent whose ds goes to nursery only 1 day a week, I have noticed that lots of the "all week" nursery children are much quieter than my ds. Perhaps this is the case at your ds's nursery - an unusually high number of quiet children which makes your ds and friends stick out a bit. Perhaps one of the parents of a quiet child has complained, not knowing what the average three-year-old is like.

If it were me, and I were certain that my ds was perfectly normal, which I would have thought you should be after the hv and other assessments, I would politely refuse to allow the nursery to interfere any more. After all, if he wasn't at nursery the issue would never have arisen.

Tigermoth - I really would strongly give thought to changing his nursery. I know you say he is happy there, and it is only 2 more terms - but are you happy with him being there? Because that matters too. Also it makes a difference how they think of him - if a child is thought of as a "problem child" the nursery staff will often treat them differently, which can end up creating problems where there were none before. I would really think about a new start with another nursery who have no preconceived ideas (in fact I wouldn't even mention this nursery to them, let alone their view of his difficulties). That way you know there is nothing working against him.

This is what we did with our son - although to behonest it did kindof backfire. Our son had done the rounds of the Community Paed, Specialist Health Visitor etc, on the advice of the nursery who felt they percieved a problem (which to be honest I agreed with - a big difference to your case). All the professionals said "Oh, no, no problem - it is just the nursery". So we changed him to a different nursery - telling them nothing about his difficulties - and left him there for an hour for settling day. When I got back to collect him they said "Would you mind talking to the Headmistress?" In that short time they had identified most of the problems the other nursery had had with him, and sadly declined to take him full time with a full time support worker for him. He has since been diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger Syndrome. This rather long story is just really to say that if there is a problem another nursery would also notice it without prompting - and that would be something to consider quite carefully. But more likely from your description of him then he would leave the "problems" and his slightly tarnished reputation behind and be able to make a fresh start on a level playing field.

Does that make sense (I do tend to waffle and loose track of where I am going with these things....)

Just to add to oakmaiden's comments- which I agree with. Even if there is some sort of "problem" - which I very much doubt - the difference in attitude between nurseries can be staggering. The nursery we removed my ds1 from saw him as a "problem". He had no dx, he was not disruptive or difficult, he did what he was told, but he had great difficult eating with cutlery, didn't understand wbout things like having to sit in a circle (he was under 2) and there was quite possibly something "wrong". Now at 4 he is so much harder to handle as the gap between him and his peers is so much bigger. Thyehave to work extrememly hard to include him in all the nursery activities- for the moment he has full time one -to one support- and needs it believe me, but I am never made to feel that he is a problem. Even difficult things such as belting or headbutting his keyworker when she doesn't understand him isn't treated as being a major problem- I'm never made to feel bad about it.

I don't believe that an SEN diagnosis will stick without need- I just don't believe that can happen- parents of children with subtle SEN's have t struggle continually to ensure they remain recognised. However the label of "difficult child" or something like that can stick. At the first nursery- in the pre-dx days - I think my son was seen as stupid - which he most certainly is not. I asked to see their observation notes and the way in which they interpreted his behaviour horrified me- they just did not uderstand him at all. I dread to think how they would be treating him now, and what that would do for his self-esteem.

In your shoes I wouldn't worry about a particular SEN label. I think parents of "normal" for want of a better word- think that means far more than it does, and it really really doesn't follow your child around, or get them any extra help or do anything at all without an awful lot of foot stamping and shouting and screaming and the rest! However I would be very concerned about how this particular memeber of staff is actually interacting with your child- and whether that rubs off on other memebers of staff as well. If they are misiniterpreting him - and reacting incorrectly towards him that could cause more damage than any particular erronious label.

Jimjams, I agree with everything that you said about SEN not 'following' a child. Everything that I have read about special needs provisions states that in the majority of cases, special needs provision is a short term thing that helps a child 'over' a particular problem.

Ds has improved a great deal following the imput from the SENCO at his nursery. His language is developing, and his behaviour has imroved as a result. I have had a chat with his teacher, and they may keep him in the nursery class for a term in September, which I think would be good for him.
I am seriously considering doing my level 3 project on special needs provision, if I can.

How did the hearing test go?

I don't have much to add to all the good advice already here but it certainly seems that the keyworker / nursery has their own agenda which is potentially at the expense of your son. I can't understand how they can justify their 'diagnosis' when your GP is satisfied with your son's progress. It all must be very upsetting.

Hi hmb- you should do it- I want you as ds1's teacher! Please please please

I've been meaning to post about the hearing test. The team who carried it out were lovely. He may have some loss in the left ear, but it shouldn't be interfering with speech sounds. They want to see him again in a few months. Actually this is the worst possible news as it is therefore almost certainly verbal dyspraxia - which doesn't get better without very particular and very intensive SALT. In the States we'd be arguing for SALT 5 times a week. TBH we'll be lucky to get it 5 times a year here.

Coincidentally we saw the paed last week about statementing and he said that he thought ds1 had verbal dyspraxia especially as he has such obvious fine motor dyspraxia (I have been saying this for 2 years- agggghhhhhhh). Anyway I am trying to get this pead to mention the words verbal dyspraxia on his report- as we then have a possibility of geting a lot of SALT written into part 3 of his statement and the LEA then become legally obliged to provide it. Without this we don't really have a hope. Trouble is people won't diagnose autism and dyspraxia which drives me insane. Because he has autism they then think he needs help "wanting" to communicate. He doesn't he tries very hard to communicate. He just cant because he can't bloody talk and can't make the sounds! But then he doesn't get help with the dyspraxia (which in my mind is far more of a problem for him). Luckily he has a good ed psych (I recognised the child she was talking about -lol) and she has noted his frequent attempts at communication and has described his dyspraxia as a "major barrier to learning"- I like that phrase.

The really good news was the hearing test went really really well. The team were all impressed with how cooperative he was and said he was less phased and more obliging than many "normal" children. The hearing test a year ago was horrendous - it was lovely to see how he had come on. Really brought it home to me how much progress he's made.

And yesterday- he went on a beach for the first time in 9 months. No screaming- just went right up the waves and looked at them. yeaahhh (actually this is a bit of a relief as we are going camping near the sea in June- I had visions of not beng allowed anywhere near the beach).

Bet you wished you'd never asked! But yeah- do that project. keeping him in nursery for an extra term sounds a good idea as well.

Hi Tigermoth

SEN? Bah!!! I'm pretty horrified that the nursery can dismiss the comments of the previous nursery, the HV, the GP and above all, you, so easily. Particularly on less than two month's evidence. It strikes me an awful waste of SEN resources, apart from anything else.

As to practical suggestions, well, firstly, do you have the option of changing key workers? It may just be a slight personality clash between your ds and the manager (and, if you don't find her sympathetic, it's quite likely he won't).
Perhaps you could express it as a managerial issue ie you would like to separate the nursery's assessment of your son's behaviour from his day to day care.

And secondly, would the nursery agree to delay discussing an SEN until your son has had at least another month with them? He's still pretty new and I guess is establishing his place in the social order there - that's likely to make him exaggerate his behaviour.

Anyway, I hope you manage to sort it out. I can't believe you are being asked to waste so much of your energy on this

tigermoth, sorry, noo time to read all so may overlap. You say you've just changed nurseries, so it would be a shame to mess your ds about too much. Otoh I would not be happy with keeping him in, if I were in your position.

-I'd be worried that they'd go behiond my back again.
-I'd be worried at their determination to persue this.
-I don't think extra funding for the establishment is at all a justifiable reason for this if it is unnecessary, especially as he will be leaving soon & therefore wouldn't benefit from the extra funding anyway.
-The fact that your gp & hv have not come to these conclusions should definitely boost your confidence in your own judgement.
-If there really was something wrong, waiting till school, which is only a few months away and more long-term and stable (and experineced?) would be better, surely, and unlikely to make any long-term difference.
-How willing will the nursery be to just let it drop if you ask/tell them?