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should I trust my own judgement?

72 replies

tigermoth · 21/04/2003 11:02

I don't know where to post this, nearly put it under the special needs topic.

My 3.8 month old son has no developmental problems that we know of. When he started nursery in September (a week after his 3rd birthday) he settled in quickly. I regularly asked his key worker and others about his progress and behaviour and they said he was fine. I was very proactive because my oldest son was hard to handle at this age. I was repeatedly told his behviour was normal for his age (no big hitting/biting/attention problem etc.) He wasn't keen on sitting and drawing (but then he was very young) and he was very lively, but he did focus on construction activities and imaginative play.

For practical reasons we changed nurseries in January. Again my son settled in happily, but I am getting increasingly unhappy with the nursery's attitude to my son.

On the first day, I gave his new key worker a run down of his old nursery's report - 'lively but normal'. I suggested she might like to contact his old keyworker. I got the distinct impression that this wouldn't be happening and the more I talked to the new keyworker (also the head of the nursery) the more I didn't like her. Couldn't put my finger on why.

Just 10 days into term she told me she wanted an SEN advisor to see my son. I asked why? how could they have come to this conclusion after less than two weeks? There had been no incidents, apart from my son being involved in a small snowball fight. She said that they found him difficult to control - although he would sit at some activities, he also ran around a lot and didn't respond quickly when they asked him not to climb on things. She assured me he was not the only one - two or three other children in the class of 16 would also be seeing the SEN advisor. I was not happy, firsty about her under two week assessment of my son, and secondly about her zero interest in referring back to his old nursery. I felt she had an agenda and was not asking my permission about him seeing the SEN advisor, but telling me this would be happening or else. Anyway, I swallowed my misgivings and went along with it for the sake of my son.

A few weeks later my son had his three and a half year assessment at our GPs. He passed all the tests but unfortunately threw an unusually big tantrum at the end of the session, while I was chatting to the Health visitor. I duly reported all this to the nursery as they had requested.

I had another meeting with the keyworker and she suggested my son had a hearing problem, that he had poor eye contact, he was clumsy - could I arrange a hearing test and also could he have a second three and a half year check up this time conducted at home? I phoned my gp. The nursery workers kept asking me if I had dates for these appointments, then asked if I could phone again, mentioning the nursery's concerns to make it a matter of urgency. The appointments were duly set up.

A health visitor who knows my son well came to visit us, did the 3.5 test again - my son passed it - and then spent an hour and a half observing my son and I together while talking over possible problems. He said my son's eye contact and motor skills were fine and agreed with the old nursery's verdict - he was lively but normal. My son's hearing test was fine too and the audiologists who saw him did not think he had a major behaviour problem. Like lots of little children he heard what he wanted to hear.

My HV had also explained that my son's new nursery may be seeking extra funding for staff and this is why they will want to get likely children in front of an SEN advisor. It strengthens their case. But the end result is good for all - higher staff levels benenfit all the children.

I reported the results back to the nursery and gave them permission to contact my HV if they wanted to discuss things directly. But I also wanted to be kept fully informed. I asked the staff if they still thought my son's behaviour was beyond normal and the answer was yes.

We decided it would be good if I stayed with my son in the nursery for an hour or so a few days a week to observe him. I did this and IMO he was one of four or five lively boys. He did run around but also happily focussed on some of the play activities (surely few 3.8 year olds focus on all of them?) and he was pretty good at sharing his toys and cooperating. He certainly got on well with the other children. When another boy repeatedly tried to steal some plasticine balls he had made he told an adult, rather than shoving him away. He lined up when he was asked to and put up his hand to answer questions - some of the time. Of couse it's difficult to know what he is like when I am not there, but I have been told he will sit and be obedient as I witnessed, but just not all the time.

A week or so later my HV phoned to tell me he was cancelling an appointment to come in to observe my son at nursery and would rebook in May. I told him I knew nothing about this and he was surprised.

I was very shocked and angry that the nursery had gone behind my back when I had been so open with them. I had been in the nursery so much that there had been ample opportunity to tell me. When I collected my son that day I told the key worker about the cancelled appointment and asked her to tell me if they had any dealings with OUR health visitior - just as I'd asked. She knew I was angry.

That's the background here here are the issues I'd like opinions on ( please )

I feel my own perception of my son is at odds with the nursery's perception. I do not feel my son's behavour is beyond normal and am worried he is getting singled out even if it is for the greater good of the nursery ie increasing staff levels. Should I go along with the nursery's view?

I'd be interested to hear from those who have special needs children (behaviour issues). I get the impression that usually it's the parent who feels their child has special needs and it's the nursery /school etc who are slow to accept this. I seem to have the opposite problem. Do you think I should trust my own judgement?

Just to complicate things further, I have always thought my youngest son is easier and better behaved than my oldest son was at 3/4 years. I definitely do not feel so stressed looking after him. My dh, on the other hand, disagrees with me and says my oldest son was an easier child.

Help!

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Marina · 06/05/2003 16:41

Hmm, so why have they homed in on you and ds2 if this is a live-wire cohort issue? V glad it went OK tigermoth and, as you say, hope that this is as far as it goes for you two specifically.

bossykate · 06/05/2003 19:33

sounds quite positive, tigermoth, hope all goes well.

janh · 06/05/2003 20:42

tigermoth, I have read most of this thread now and am completely boggled at how your nursery seems to expect boys to behave.

DS2 was a complete zombie at nursery compared with yours - didn't join in, didn't share, didn't talk much, didn't do anything much, mostly played with his chosen vehicle in a corner, and his scrapbook of completed work was pitiful. Nobody ever said maybe he should be assessed for SEN, although compared with yours I would say he appeared much more in need of it. No outside professionals were called in (as far as I know).

His summer visits to his reception class put the wind up the class teacher, because he was so uncooperative and unable to share, but there was never any question of getting this child on the SEN register, and this was a very experienced Reception teacher (25 years). (In the event he magically got quite a lot better over the summer holidays but you can imagine how life would have been had it been deemed necessary to statement him.)

Your whole situation seems bizarre and, as somebody has said, if he weren't at this particular nursery none of this would have happened. "Lively but normal"??? "but"??? Lively should be normal! Haven't they got anything better to do? If the nursery can't cope with a lively group of little boys maybe they need to address their own capabilities. Ooh, I am cross about this!

tigermoth · 07/05/2003 10:18

janh, what a heartwarming message

I do so agree that if my son was at a different nursery, chances are this would not be happening. I find it odd that the nursery staff are so puzzled by my son, too. Honestly, he is not so unusual! The other lively boys - because they all are boys (sigh) - just seem like normal lively toddlers to me. I suspect my son's collectoin of completed work will be sparse, too. As you say, he won't be the first 3 year old to not want to paint pictures. It reminds me of a comment my oldest son's reception year teacher said to me at parents meeting. 'He hasn't got much sense of the work ethic'. I felt like saying, 'well thank goodness for that, he's only 5 years old!'

It sounds like your ds2 was just going through a slightly inward-looking stage. I do laugh at your vivid descriptions - hope you don't mind.

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tigermoth · 07/05/2003 10:23

Marina, that's an interesting point. I wonder if the parents of the other lively boys have been asked to organise hearing tests, and had their own health visitor at the nursery, too? I think I'll ask the keyworker this question. Another reason to ask the nursery to put something down on paper, too.

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CAM · 07/05/2003 11:27

I bet they'll say they can't discuss the other children with another parent, though... I agree with Janh's posting that it seems to be the nursery workers who have the problem.

tigermoth · 17/12/2003 14:47

lots to say.
my youngest ds has not left nursery and starts school in January.

The nursery have taken no further action about his possible SEN classification, or followed up their concerns that his behaviour is beyond normal liveliness.

So - either the nursery staff can't be bothered or they feel the problems are too minor for intervention, or they want to pass the buck to the school, or they feel my son is now OK. I don't know. The staff (apart from his keyworker) are vague on this.

In the spring my son got a new keyworker who had just joined the nursery. Experienced, enthusiastic, she is IMO head and shoulders above the rest of the staff. I feel so grateful to her. She was happy to talk to us about our son, she made him games to play at home, she saw him as an individual and I feel she really and truly cared for him. She said it wasn't right that the main attention he got involved tellings off for running around. I think she was not happy about the type of care he had been receiving from the nursery to date.
For another adult to take such an interest in my son was a novelty. As luck would have it, both his childminders and all his previous nursery staff have ticked all the boxes, but no more. They have seen the lively, energetic qualities in my ds, but in my (OK biased because I am his mum) opinion, they have missed his more caring, quirky, imaginative and thoughful side. Other carers put controlling and containing his energy as top priority and stop there. This lovely keyworker really worked on bringing out other aspects of his character and building his confidence to express himself in quieter ways.

In the last two terms of nursery, all comments from the staff about him running around too much and not listening have stopped. The silence on this seemed bit wierd to us, and so were the answers like 'fine' and 'good as gold' to the question 'how has he been today?'

I am over the moon about his end of term report. It's not that he's going to school with an extensive knowledge of the three 'R's. But I am so proud that his report contains phrases like 'very caring towards other children' and 'good at concentrating for long periods on his chosen activities' and even 'mature' ( don't know how a 4 year old can be called mature but I'll leave that for now)

I know why I feel so happy. It's not that I want to show off ds, but just that I feel he has been under my older son's shadow for all his life. My 9 year old has many adult friends and a stronger bond with his father. As a preschooler he could be very charming. Lots of the adults he came into contact with warmed to him quickly. My youngest son is not like this and even my MIL and PIL do not, IMO, give him as much attention as they did my oldest son. My dh looked at ds2's nursery report and pretty much shrugged. He can't understand why I am so pleased. That's partly why his keyworker deserves a thank you. She proved to me that other adults can find my ds very engaging - he's more than a duty they face.

The key worker has said she wants to keep in contact with my son and would happily pick him up after school or look after him in the holidays if we need a childminder. What more can I ask for?

I am sure school isn't going to be an easy ride for my ds - like every child he'll have some sort of problem, but I feel tons more confident he will settle in.

OP posts:
tigermoth · 17/12/2003 15:09

sorry, should read 'my youngest son has now left nursery'

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suedonim · 17/12/2003 15:53

What a lovely Christmas present, Tigermoth, to know how much your ds has come on. It's amazing the difference an interested person and a few months can make!

jinglesaur · 17/12/2003 15:56

Tigermoth - that's fabulous news

I for one can understand exactly why this makes you so happy!

All the best,

dinosaur (just in case you didn't recognise me from my festive name!)

tigermoth · 17/12/2003 19:40

thanks! I wonder if my son's nursery workers have any idea how much power they have over my emotions? just a few comments, good or bad, can make such a difference sometimes. I thought I'd get more blase about other people's opinions with son number two, but I find this is not the case.

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WideWebWitch · 17/12/2003 19:44

tigermoth, I'm really pleased to hear this.

Batters · 17/12/2003 20:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Marina · 17/12/2003 20:24

Oh that's tremendous news Tigermoth, and no more than you all deserve. Until my ds was at nursery I misguidedly thought that all people who chose to work with children were unblemished saints who never did or said anything mean to anyone. I now know that they can be as curmudgeonly or spiteful as any other member of the human race, or as slapdash, and I guess your ds2 came up against some of these. How great he ended up with a proper nursery worker who was warm as well as professional. Hats off to the "mature" little lad and a very merry Christmas to you all!

kmg1 · 17/12/2003 20:30

Great news Tigermoth. Hope he gets a teacher at school who appreciates him too.

alohappychristmas · 17/12/2003 20:47

Great news! I know from your posts how much you care about him and have worried about him. Isn't it great when other people see what you see in your child?

Jimjambells · 17/12/2003 20:57

tigermoth

bossykate · 17/12/2003 22:38

wonderful!

winnie1 · 18/12/2003 08:49

Tigermoth how lovely for you and ds. Good luck with his starting school.

Cam · 18/12/2003 10:29

Tigermoth, so pleased for you and your little son!

chanelno5 · 18/12/2003 12:59

what a relief for you, tigermoth and well done ds2!

tigermoth · 19/12/2003 07:59

thanks everyone, what a lot of good wishes from you. Since I'm not planning to have another baby, I'll probably never get a congratulations thread to print off, but this is a perfect substitute . Yes, Aloha, it's such a relief when others see the same qualities in your child as you do.

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