Potty Training - What is Realistic?

[dcolagirl]

As the warmer weather is now upon us (at least until Saturday, I'm told!) I have decided that next week is potty training week. I am off work too so we can stay in the garden.

DS is 2.5 yrs and we have attempted PT several times before. He just doesn't get it. He likes sitting on the potty but I don't think he realises he is supposed to pee in it.

I've read all the other threads about what age to start and what to look for before starting, but I can't find any practical advice about what I should expect. Should I expect a success rate of 1 in 3 wees in the pot? At what stage do I decide he still isn't ready and put a nappy back on?

DD is 15 months and I might even put her on the pot when DS is on it, just to give her the idea.

What do you think? Some realistic goals please!!!

Jimjams my DS plays with his willy while he is actually sat on the potty doing a wee! I am trying to discourage this for hygiene/cleanliness reasons.

JimJams, does he watch you or your DH go to the toilet? If not, might this help him understand what you want him to do? Also, does it really matter if he ends up facing the wrong way on the toilet? Provided all the relevant bits are over the bowl, it should still work fine! I remember sitting facing the cistern when I was very little. One thing I remember doing with DS1 was taking him to the toilet after poo accidents and emptying it (bleagh!!) into the toilet stressing that this was the proper place for it. Of course, this may freak your DS out. I remember my autistic cousin being hospitalised because he linked eating to poo-ing and then refused to eat because of the consequences. I think this was after he'd had a stomach bug.

Good luck!

Jimjams, I think that you are probably right in that he thinks that you will know when he needs to go. And running to get him there on time isn't going to help that one. Damn, this is difficult. It must be awful for you all.
Still, the one positive thing is that if he will use pecs for food he should be able to use them for the toilet once things drop into place. Good luck, and I hope that things improve.

One thought, does he expect his key worker to 'know' when he wants to go, and might she be co-opted into getting things started?

He watches me empty the poo into the toilet. I alway say "poos go in the toilet" in fact he'll happily lead me there and flush of for me He does get upset if he gets poo on him (thank god) and if he does a poo he'll come and find me then take me to it if I've missed it. I think he thinks its ok to poo on the floor then put it on the toilet though.

Trouble with being the wrong way round is he puts his feet in the bowl!! Not too worried about the sitting on the toilet thing as I'd rather he found me at the moment anyway as he needs helps pulling down trousers and stuff really.

He won't wee at nursery- he only goes there in the morning and he holds on. he hasn't worn nappies there since xmas. They sit him on the toilet but he refuses to go. I'll give his one-to-one a pecs cards as well.

Thanks for the ideas though- keep 'em coming! It's making me think of different strategies anyway.

Good news this evening though. I have a "I want toilet" pecs card danglng from my trousers. He was playing with it and said "uh an mmdan" so I took him upstairs. Didn't do anything, but he did at least sit there.

He also won;t use the downstairs toilet (too noisy).

Jimjams - as you'll know from the other thread my ds is having probs with communication. He is a couple of months younger than your ds but is partly trained. He will only use the potty if he is naked from the waist. You say your ds is too big but our potty seems big enough - it is a Tommy Tipee. He won't ask for it but will use it if it is in the same room. His bladder control is good as he will go several hours so I've stopped using nappies when we are out. Trouble is as soon as he has trousers on he just wets them.

I am sick of seeing a bare bum but I suppose at least we are partly there. No school for another year and at least pre-school nursery are happy for him to be in pull-ups (as they are at his playgroup which he currently attends).

Anyway just wondered if your ds was physically next to a potty he may be more keen to use it. I know what youi mean about not having clothes on - my ds doesn't care about being naked. One thing I have noticed though is that he has started asking me to go away when he is using the potty which isn't something I haven't taught him at all.

Sorry I don't feel I've offered a lot of advice. Good luck.

Feet in the bowl is definitely the wrong way round

I'm sure once you find the right trigger it will all fall into place fairly quickly.

Hi jimjams, I was just thinking about your PECS cards. I used to use PECS and think it's a fantastic system.

I was just wondering that if part of the routine was for your ds to pull down his trousers and pants after he gives you the card it might be more motivating for him. It doesn't sound like being put on the toilet is in itself motivating, but it sounds like taking off his clothes is and this would encourage him to do it appropriately .

You might be doing this already, couldn't tell from your description. Just another idea though.

Whoops - have just thought my last posting through and realised that it is a terrible idea as when he comes to generalising the exchange outside the bathroom your ds will give the card and then pull down his trousers! Definately not the appropriate behaviour I was meaning to encourage.

Perhaps you could have a toilet symbol to mean "I need to go to the toilet" and once there he could give you a trouser symbol to pull down his trousers - the motivating bit of the exchange.

Will try not to make anymore suggestions when I am only half awake - sorry.

The only trouble with the trouser pulling is that he's dyspraxic and he finds trouser pulling quite a pain. He can do it but tends to get annoyed. I forgot to say earlier he will often remove his trousers as soon as he starts to wee so sometimes they get wet- so in other words he's definitely feeling it.

I have a feeling the physical prompting may be the way to go. We did a few times today and he was more than happy to go and sit on the toilet once I'd forced the exchange iykwim. I'll continue to try that for a while I think. This week's a bit funny as there's no nursery- it may be easier once we're back in routine (I kind of know when he'll go on nursery days as he holds it in).

PECS is great isn't it CER? I forgot to buy my mum and dad a wedding anniversary card so I printed out "happy anniversary granny and grandad love all of us" - it looked great. At the moment ever room has its "i want toilet" card velcroed onto a blue laminated A5 piece of paper. Interior design- great.

soupdragon- I did laugh when I found him siting splashing away with his feet in the bowl. He went through a couple of weeks when he became quite bathroom obssessed - I thought it would lead naturally onto poty training with some gentle encouragement, but with hindsight I should have set up a routine using PECS then.

I'm impressed with all your ideas btw. One thing that slows us down is that he insists on taking his trousers (and socks!) and pants/nappy right off - he won't just pull them down to his ankles. Maybe I'll just need to live with that (a pain if he's wearing shoes though). Any ideas?

Only idea jimjams is shorts and sandals as the nicer weather comes to make it easier. But thats so obvious as to not be much use to you.

Well I've been out and splashed out on a book: "Toilet training for Individuals with Autism and Related Disorders". I spent last night making up PECS sequence cards "wake-up, toilet, play" "eat, toilet, play". DS1 seems quite interested. He will pass me the "I want toilet" card now with a physical prompt and then go and sit on the toilet.

The book is good as it breaks training down into "continence" ie following your body cues, and "habit training" ie learning to go at a set time of the day. I'm sure DS1 will be able to gian continence, but I'm reinforcing it with habit training.

He is very aware of the toilet again, and has told me every time he's been. Verbally!!! Yesterday he said his longest sentence ever... "un a oo, uh an mmdan" (done a poo I want toilet)- and he had!

Should be easier next week- back to nursery so I know when he goes then- he's a bit out of sync this week.

And if he isn't toilet trained in 3 months I'm applying for free nappies. I've avoided doing that as I hate paying for them so much (ds2 is in washables- so he doesn't cost much) that it's a real incentive!

Hi guys, quick update. Two solid days of 100% failure led me to believe ds is not ready. He can say potty, wee wee and poo but doesn't know what they are. He even wet while sat on my lap.

Tried him to the big toilet and he caught his leg in the seat and is now terrified. Intend to leave it for 4 weeks and try again monthly if necessary until he gets it. I don't want to make it an issue for him or me.

dcolagirl, I think you are doing the right thing - he will 'get it' when he is good and ready and like you said, you don't want to make an issue of it. I didn't even try potty training my ds until he was 2y 10mo, he just didn't seem ready, but 3 months down the line he is completely dry in the day and going to the 'big toilet' by himself for stand up wees.

My ds was 2yrs 4 mnths when he started using the potty...luckily for me i had a friend who had a daughter who was using the potty when we met. My ds saw how she was praised each time she used it and this...i think...encouraged him to use it. I didnt force it, i was quite relaxed about it and left him to play without trousers and pants on for a few days. some days were better than others, i didnt get stressed over it, i just acted surprised when he had used it and then he got the knack! i took him shopping in nappies, and when he started telling me he needed the potty, i started to use pants when we were out. so far, in 7 months, he has only wet one pair of pants while we have been out, and no poo's. Best of luck with it, persevere, and be laid back about it, thats my advice, kids never do what u want them to first time anyway, they are always up for surprising us. Hope it all goes well.

Update - we have only had 2 accidents in 2 weeks, however, prior to that we had poo pants for five consecutive days! I admit I got cross and said all his favourite pants would go in the bin if he did it again - maybe this was a fluke but it worked. I've not had no poo pants for 2 weeks!! All in all it has taken a month and my ds will be 3 in August. I have also put him in pants at night this last week with only one accident. He gave all his nappies away to his 'baby' cousin.

Update from me! Bought a FABULOUS book called 'Potty Training in One Week' by the legendary Gina ford. It is so simple and easy to read, and makes perfect sense. She says that there are 7 things your child should be able to dfo easily before you should even attempt potty training. Ds is doing 5 of them now so I am happy to wait.

dcolagirl - Could I be cheeky and ask what the 7 things are?

Yes, of course! I was going to try and put them down anyway but I might not be able to remember them all!

Here goes:

1. Be able to pull own trousers and pants up and down easily.
2. Be at least 18 months old.
3. Follow simple instructions i.e. put your toy in the box.
4. Have a dry nappy after their nap or a dry nappy a couple of hours after having a clean one put on.
5. Tell you when they are going to the toilet by either pointing to thei nappy or telling you.
6. Be able to entertain themselves with a book or video and sit still for 5 - 10 minutes while doing so.
7. Can't remember the last one, but I'm impressed I managed to remember 6 out of 7!

Well, no. 2's certainly not true of all children! The rest seem like common sense although I'm not sure about the relevance of no. 6 - is it so they can entertain themselves on the toilet?

DC - Do you mind if I ask you somefink???

I can't remember if you posted that you were or were not pregnant. I remember you thought you might be, but I must've missed the confirmation post!

Oops, number 7 was 'be able to point to their different body parts i.e. belly button, bottom'.

Mum2Toby - still don't know. Have tested a few weeks ago but was neg, although I did test during the afternoon so hcg may have been low. Still no period though, am hoping I am pg now. You?

My ds is now 3 and 3 months, and he is only just getting the hang of it, i think boys tend to be abit slower. I agree with the longer you leave it the easier it will be. Don't rush it, otherwise you will both be frustrated, which is what happened to me. They all do it at there own time, and if he is not ready then it is going to be hard and have to prepare yourself for accidents. Is it that bad for him to go back to nappies until he is ready, I know how you feel, that you want them dry and clean. But sometimes you just have to wait until you can see that they are ready to do so, and they would be more eager to do it when they want to rather then doing it before they are ready. This is just what happened to me, hope all goes well.

I've been thinking of starting our dd on the potty as she is now 2 1/2. I also bought the GF book and she meets all the relevant criteria, but unfortunately simply does not want to even sit on the potty, let alone do anything on it. I even resorted to the old choc. buttons bribery but it didn't work. Any suggestions? Even if I suggest she do something whilst on the potty, like look at a book or watch TV shes' not interested.

Well DS meets all the criteria now, he has had a sudden development rush in the last week or so, but he refuses, point blank, to sit on the potty. Ho hum, back to the waiting game. I've tried to make it fun but he won't have a bar of it. Kids eh? Who'd have em???!!!