Is choosing NOT to smack undermining my authority?

[amyntomsmummy]

Hiya
dd (now 4) and to a certain extent ds(2) for some reason or the other, lately seem to be goin bonkers with me in the house despite firm convetional disciplinary tactics e.g. time out, bottom step, rational talking to (which all do sometimes work)...
Ive always gone by the thought that i'd rather die than ever see any of my kids go through pain, so smacking to me was a NONO! And this has been despite many times when the temptation to lay my hand upon a few little bottoms has been great! I would only beleive in smacking the bottom though, (never damagable hands, legs,arms...)
dh is a bit of a smacker when he needs to be but I feel this is sometimes the only thing the kids seem to respond to and dh has a MUCH bigger grip on the kids behaiviour than I do. I feel with me,
especially with my daughter, she feels that mummy is powerless because she never has a detering last resort. I.e. my authority is being undermined because I dont smack.
After long thinking I think that im right not to want to put my child through 'real pain' but I feel that a little discomfort on the cute, soft thing she sits on, is really not 'pain' but instead might probably be good for her in the long term.
Have others felt that they are powerless to their children unless they become as firm as I am thinking? Tell me your thoughts pls xxx
Jessica

I'm finding this an almost surreal thread. And I'm hoping deep in my soul that the spatula business really IS a joke.

Someone just posted something strange on my member profile thread. Not sure if it's connected with this thread or not. Or if I'm getting paranoid.

If anyone thinks I could hit DS with a spatula, wooden spoon, ladle or any other implement, or my hand, or would plan to do so on the day he turns 18 months - fgs!!!

It's interesting to read all these views! We have some very close friends who have had nine children in 30 years of marriage. They are an amzing couple, very dedicated Christians, and every one of their children is a balanced, kind-hearted and well-behaved person. They are firm believers in this kitchen implement thing, and I'd always respected their opinion with regard to this. But apparently in the MN world, this is not at all acceptable! It seems really weird to me that such a wonderful family would do something that would be considered by all of you as abuse. You should meet them, they are all fantastic!! I'm sure, however, that they wouldn't have hit their babies with spatulas. Nobody would, would they??

No HM, not you!

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I am trying to take an impersonal view if this but...

I have a friend who was smacked as a child with a woodn spoon. She is now 25, and she still remembers the feeling that her mother hated her so much that when she smacked her, she couldn't bear to touch her

No, I don't think it is wrong to send a child to their room. I do think it is wrong to hold the door shut, it must be terrifying to discover that you can't get to your mother.

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I don't mean to be funny but has anyone noticed that the starter of this thread has not come back with any more input? And I did a search and she has only posted once ... by starting this thread ...
I have watched this thread closely and basically I can't help thinking that although all you lovely people are having good debate on smacking, the person who started this thread may well be thoroughly enjoying reading it IYSWIM??
I am not usually this suspicious but there was a particular phrase in her post that made me so and in the past there have been some real weirdos asking similar questions ....
Sorry ... just wanted to tell you ....

Weirdly I'm getting a reaction to the other form of parental discipline

DS tells me 'if you don't do (what I want) I will make you leave the room'

Sometimes I have an issue with the psychological warfare some parents play with their children - they are standard parenting techniques that people are 'told' to use nowadays - taking away toys and putting them in clear perspex containers so the child can see them, but not reach them - what are people teaching there - behave or we will remove the thing you really love??

that IMHO is far worse than the occasional smack on the bottom

I have also seen parents who say 'we don't smack' push a child away hard yet still come over all morally superior in the 'we don't smack' stakes and heard another set 'I don't love you when you act like that'

Totally agree with bloss its a matter of degree

There must be something wrong with the software that drives this board - presumably, somehow, "I very occasionally swat my child's bum with a spatula" came out as "I am Torquemada and regularly beat babies"!

Actually, I have no problem with parents who choose not to smack. But I do have a problem with those who think they know me and put words in my mouth.

My sons are 5 and 3, and I can count on comfortably less than the fingers of one hand the number of smack-bottoms they've had. They don't fear me (sheesh, chance'd be a fine thing!), they are not inwardly repressed, they're both healthy, boisterous, outgoing, loving little boys.

I find it intriguing that if I was the stereotypical hand-wringing, guilt-ridden smacking mum from the psychology books who lashed out with her hand when she finally "lost it", that would probably be OK (though accompanied by a load of patronising tut-tut don't do it again-ing).

Whereas, because I only smack in exceptional circumstances, as part of a considered disciplinary structure, fully in control of my emotions and with a tool which actually is far less likely to do any damage than my hand (you still don't get that, do you?) I'm the bastard daughter of King Herod and Lucrezia Borgia.

personally I find it as disturbing that you smack in a 'controlled' way. It's pre-meditated.

Lindymum - good post. I would especially agree with you about the 'language'. It never ceases to amaze me on hot topic threads how one posters words are put through the mangle and come out the other side more emotive and inflammatory.

If people choose not to smack, then they should do just that. Hands off, full stop.

If you think smacking has a place, then why is it be better for you to be "out of control"? Why is smacking to vent your temper morally superior to smacking because you feel that happens to be the most appropriate discipline in certain circumstances?

Isn't the whole "smacking with spatula" thing a particularly US, Christian fundamentalist (sorry, wrong expression but I'm sure you know what I mean) idea? I have heard of this kind of thing on Ricky Lake and US parenting boards, I can't find the link but there's a whole section of a "Christian" website with different "discipline implements" for sale.

for the record I don't think smacking 'in control' or 'out of control' is right and while I am always impressed with the logic and intelligence of arguments put forward by the likes of Bloss (since this debate has run and run on MN) for me personally smacking is just wrong. I can't argue with the rationality of bloss's argument for e.g. but smacking just goes completely against my instincts. I cannot separate that kind of physical contact with any other sort of hitting.

Twiglet, I found your post very interesting and brings me back to an issue that's been somewhat lost in this thread, i.e. whether our children are capable only of appreciating morality in terms of absolute equivalence.

The old argument goes that if you smack your children, you teach them that it's ok to hit people. It seems that Twiglet's son thinks the same about sending people out of a room.

The answer to all these arguments is surely this; that children need to be, and can be, taught that there is no absolute equality in these situations. If I commit a crime, my opinion on what should happen to me does not carry as much weight as that of the magistrate presiding over my case.

Similarly, children are quite capable of understanding that there is a range of sanctions available to their own designated authority figures (mum and dad, teachers etc) which are NOT ok for them to employ or imitate.

Twiglett, apologies for missing your final T!

This thread has made me so sad. There is nothing in Christianity that sanctions hitting a child with an implement. If anyone really believes this then please get a copy of Christian Parenting by the attachment parenting experts William and Martha Sears, who give a more accurate explanation of what it means to 'spare the rod'. For a Christian, our hands should show the love Jesus has for them, and if our hands are wielding something to hit them then we are failing in this. And the kitchen thing...kitchens are supposed to be the heart of the home. I fully understand where Bloss is coming from re her ds even though I disagree with her, but using a spatual or anything else is so wrong, and IMO criminal, and I make no apologies for that.

This thread has depressed me more than I can say.

I think Ghosty has an excellent point. We have had posters on here before who just LOVE a good debate about smacking etc. If amyntomsmummy is for real, perhaps she would like to contribute to this debate. Otherwise, I think we might do well to consider why someone might enjoy this discussion.

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My toddle son occasionally tried to hit us when angry/annoyed/over excited. We are trying to stop him doing this by various methods. How could we do this if we were smacking him if we got annoyed by his behaviour. It makes no sense.

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So where is amyntomsmum? And was it she who posted the horrible message on my members profile?!