Is choosing NOT to smack undermining my authority?

[amyntomsmummy]

Hiya
dd (now 4) and to a certain extent ds(2) for some reason or the other, lately seem to be goin bonkers with me in the house despite firm convetional disciplinary tactics e.g. time out, bottom step, rational talking to (which all do sometimes work)...
Ive always gone by the thought that i'd rather die than ever see any of my kids go through pain, so smacking to me was a NONO! And this has been despite many times when the temptation to lay my hand upon a few little bottoms has been great! I would only beleive in smacking the bottom though, (never damagable hands, legs,arms...)
dh is a bit of a smacker when he needs to be but I feel this is sometimes the only thing the kids seem to respond to and dh has a MUCH bigger grip on the kids behaiviour than I do. I feel with me,
especially with my daughter, she feels that mummy is powerless because she never has a detering last resort. I.e. my authority is being undermined because I dont smack.
After long thinking I think that im right not to want to put my child through 'real pain' but I feel that a little discomfort on the cute, soft thing she sits on, is really not 'pain' but instead might probably be good for her in the long term.
Have others felt that they are powerless to their children unless they become as firm as I am thinking? Tell me your thoughts pls xxx
Jessica

I know someone who had a terribly difficult child, she was smacked on a regular basis. It didn't work and the smacking eventually evolved into punching. That didn't work either. She was terrified of her father but continued to misbehave.

My Mum was a smacker and often would grap the nearest thing to hit one of us until one day my sister hit her back. I think she was about 11 at the time. My mother never hit her again. My sister and her husband used smacking as a form of punishment with one of their children and it never worked.

I don't smack mainly because I think it is wrong to hit another person but also because I have seen how it does't work and how it can escalate (sp?)to dangerous levels.

The thing in the supermarket was my dd would encourage my ds to run around the supermarket. I would tell him off and as soon I wasn't looking dd would egg him on again. They would very loud and the running around was just dangerous. It was/is a jealousy thing on DD part 1. she wants to see her brother being told off and 2. she wants to be seen as 'the good one. It was a very short stage but as soon as I don't have a distraction for her she reverts back to that behaviour and DS is only 3 so easily encouraged to run around. I do see when I feel I have to smack my children as a failure on my part on not preventing the escalation of behaviour to the point where they cannot hear anybody speaking to them about anything. However, I am not a perfect parent and only can do the best I can do. Afterwards I always try and think of things that have caused the situation to get so my children are beyond hearing reason but when they have got to that point the only reason they will hear is a smack, not hard and only on the bottom. It works and has only been used when they are in danger or are being dangerous. I always look back and think how I could have handled it better or changed the situation and I never do it lightly.

I would suggest that for things to escalate to such a level, there are other factors contributing here. The way in which a child is spoken to by a parent has a major impact on them. The way a child is treated in general is likely to be as much a factor. for a parent to actually punch a child is despicable and counts as abuse in my book.

My son has a friend who is constantly called "a little shit" by his mother and effing in every other sentence is the norm. I don't know if his friend's parent smack their child but he is a very unhappy little boy.

You can't pick out being smacked as a child as the sole reason for turning out bad. Just because a child is smacked doesn't mean they'll turn out bad either.

QueenEagle, didn't mean to make you feel I was arguing, and thank you for being honest. I think distraction is great, as is giving limited choices. Dd1 is reluctant to have her hair done, so we have a big box of coloured hair ties and each morning she chooses one to match her top, then lets me brush her hair and tie it back with her matching band. She loves helping, too, and sitting at the dining table as opposed to the kitchen table for meals has improved her behaviour no end.

Definitely think that grounding/removal of privilidges is good for older children, judging by how mad it made me

There was a boy on Little Angels of about four who was being smacked and was getting out of control, his mum was on her own and supporteed by her elderly parents. It was obvious that very soon he was going to be much stronge rthan them and that they would be unable to control him physically - he was already putting on an act of bravado of 'that didn't even hurt me' every time he was smacked. The family was taught how to get him to co-operate with her and he was a much happier little boy.

Dh was smacked, I asked him how it worked and he said 'I was shit scared'. He won't have smacking either.

My previous post was aimed at Eaney, Mary it looks like I'm critiscising you. I'm not.

Mary, I agree that children of the age you have do not listen to reasoned explanations and sometimes a smack is necessary and because you use it sparingly, it works. It doesnt mean you have failed. If you are clear as to the reasons why you gave a smack and stand by them then you are sending a clear message to your child. If one day you smack, but the next you don't for the same kind of behaviour that is IMO where you would be failing as you would be confusing your child and they wouldn't know where they stood.

ionesmum, I agree that for different ages, different methods are applicable. Currently, my ds3 aged 2 gets a smack on the hand for pulling hair/clothing but my older ones aged 9, 11 and 13 don't now as other things are far more effective ie going to bed early obviously!!! Sounds like you are doing brilliantly with your dd and the hairbands btw. This is exactly the kind of approach that avoids any behaviour escalating.

It is a sad fact, as demonstrated in the programme you mentioned that some parents get caught up in a vicious circle of negativity. I have a very close friend who has a 3yr old dd who is exactly like this and her behaviour is awful.. My friend knows that positive reinforcement would work but finds it nigh on impossible to put any ideas into practice. Some people find it more natural than others to parent positively, a lot is based obviously on their own upbringing to an extent.

Hate smacking. Won't hit my kids. They are lovely! ds is 4 in Sept, stepdaughter is 13, neither has been smacked. And won't be smacking dd - 9weeks. Idea makes my blood run cold, even though, yes, it can be tempting.
Have you seen Little Angels? Amazing results, no smacking. If I were you I'd buy the book, put it into practise and get your dh to support you. Inconsistency between parents is always bad in this circumstances IMO.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but here I am
I think what suits one parent doesn't suit another - but what irritates me somewhat is the implication that a parent who smacks is somehow less of a parent because they do; or that they have 'lost it'; or that they are out to humiliate the child; or that the child will grow up damaged/lacking in confidence/whatever.
We are the fisrt generation EVER to question smacking. Have we produced children and teenagers who are more respectful? Polite? Considerate?
And - one final point. Look at the children in your childs class. Can you tell (without knowing in advance) who has been smacked? Look at 20 adults you know. Can you tell who was smacked occasionally as a child?
If you don't want to smack, fine. If you smack occasionally, fine. If you dish out regular beatings with an implement, get help.

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Bloss - exactly. And I bet he isn't growing up psychologically damaged in any way at all!

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Ditto here, Bloss. My mum smacked both of us occasionally, we were never sent to our rooms or for 'time-out', toys weren't taken away - and we were both quite well behaved children actually!

Jessica, to go back to your original question, if you don't want to hit your kids or smacking makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to. You can still have a nice family and children who are well behaved (as much as you can expect from little ones). I certainly DON'T feel powerless as a parent because I don't smack. Not remotely. However, I think there is an issue with inconsistency between you and your dh. That's a different issue altogether IMO.

Bloss, I just don't get it - sorry. My dd1 never gets sent to her room. I've timed her out twice maybe three times. We never use abusive language or deride our children in any way - I agree entirely about psycological damage being as bad as physical. So we don't have a 'naughty step' or anything like that. Occasionally she gets a toy confiscated, but its along the lines of, 'You can't manage that right now, let's get something you can'. If she is naughty, the behaviour is labelled as such - 'that was a very naughty thing to do' - but not the dds themselves. Loss of priviliges is simply stopping the perks - staying up late, or playing computer games for example - not hugely relevant at three. Dd1 doesn't do anything vicious with dd2 at all - maybe we are just lucky - but she knows what behaviour is expected of her - we've never gone in for star charts or the like. In the scenario that you give about the story, if dd1 did misbehave, she'd get ignored and then told when she's ready to behave she can join in again. Doesn't take long before she's back - she's not stupid. We just praise both our dds as much as we can.

I don't question that smacked kids are well-behaved. I question why they are well-behaved. My dh has told me why he behaved, at hom,e at any rate. Interesting that I wasn't smacked as a child, and my friend was - it didn't stop her getting into far worse trouble than me, and so did dh. I don't know anyone who wasn't smacked as a child who has gone on to decide it's a fab way to discipline their own children.

Yes, grouding a teenager is hugely embarassing but when my mum did it to me it was the last of a good many straws and although I was furious she was right. I was a cocky little cow when I was a teenager and my mum did well to last as long as she did. If my dds behave as badly as I did then I will do the same - but only after I've exhausted every other possibilty - and I wouldn't follow my mum in ignoring my dds, ever.

In our house we believe in 'do to others as you would have done to you.' If we would find the discipline embarassing or hurtful then so will our dds, so we don't do it. Toy confiscation comes if the toy is likely to hurt someone or get broken. If dd1 has got down from the table several times in a row, we tell her she has finished her meal - no yoghurt. If I don't look after something of mine and it gets broken, I get sad - I want the dds to learn the consequences of their actions.

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I have never smacked my children and I actually feel that I would have lost some of my authority if I did smack. As a grown-up I should know how to handle a child without smacking and I would feel like I had lost control if I smacked. I would also think it was very sad if my children only responded to smacking. My children are well-behaved, but luckily not just because they are worried about being smacked.

Don't think there is anything wrong with physically restraining removing a child who is being violent, Bloss. If I'd lost it and was hitting someone I'd expect someone to physically intervene. But children and parents are equal in the way they should be shown respect and listened to and in the way they should be touched. I feel very strongly as a parent that I show my children (very imperfectly) what God's love for them is like, and touch is a very powerful way of doing so. You might think this wrong but I aim to touch my children as I believe Jesus would.

As I said, the toy confiscation is related to misuse. As an adult, if I mistreat something then it breaks. I'm trying to teach the dds to look after their things eventually they will be old enough to be allowed to break them and will learn but right now isn't the time. Similarly if a toy is being used in a dangerous way, it has to be taken away. If I was using a drill dangerously and had been shown the right way to use it, I wouldn't blame dh at all for taking it off me. We dpn't take away dd's treasures. If I'm in a resturant and I wander off I can't blame dh for paying the bill and missing out on dessert. It's consequences of our actions. But how does, if I don't do what I'm supposed to I get smacked teach a lesson about life as an older child or adult?

I do feel for you with your ds, and I appreciate how hard it must be for you. Little boys are so sensitive, aren't they?

I agree that punching is abuse. One of the problems with smacking is that it can and does, with some people, lead to more severe beatings. How do you know what kind of smacker you will become? Will you be the person who uses it calmly and as part of a wider system or will you be the type who uses it when you have lost it. Why open the door when there are so many ways to discipline your child.

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We remove toys and priveledges and once dd behaves in the way we expect her toy's/priveledges are reinstated. It works quite well for us as we both support each other in our decisions, if for some reason we don't agree and think the other is being a bit harsh we still back each other up infront of DD and discuss our differences when she is out of ear shot. As to parenting classes speak to your health visitor she may be able to suggest a local group. We have a Nursery nurse attached to our health visiting team who runs parenting and child behaviour management courses on a regular basis.

Bloss, do you seriously think I'd put up with any condescension from dh? Surely you know me better! Actually we don't own a drill, and the only time such a thing has happened was when I deprived dh of the potato peeler.

You and I have very different ideas on faith so it's probably inevitable we'd have different ideas on how Jesus would be with children. I don't believe for a moment he'd hit a child - and as our hands are the only ones he has in this world they should be used to convey nothing but love.

I think I might start a thread on faith and parenting when I get the time.

IME children do as we do, not as we say. If we solve problems with a smack, so will they, if they can't find another way.

On a slightly different note - do any of you who do smack not feel like you're too 'big' to be doing it? I mean physically big. I feel all the time the enormous difference in capacity (in every way, physical as well as mental) between me and dd. In just the way I feel I might 'bully' her mentally by expecting too much of her, I would feel horrendous if I was to physically punish her even with a slap on the bottom. Her little bottom would fit into my hand. I just couldn't do it, it would make me feel sick.

What I don't get is that the same people who regularly smack their kids would be hysterical if somebody else smacked their kids! I wouldn't use any punishment on my kids that I would not be happy for anyone to use.

By getting angry at the suggestion that someone else smacks your child, you ar4e admitting you know it's wrong.