Wise Mners, I need some advice about my sensitive DD (6)

[IwouldlovetoGeneGenie]

DD1 has always been a more complex character than DD2. Now I am noticing more and more that whilst DD2's default setting is a happy calm kind of thing, DD1 tends to feel quite sorry for herself, is inclined to believe she is being left out, and views life in quite a pessimistic way.

What can I do to help her develop a more positive outlook? Needless to say both are gorgeous!

I must say that it worries me because my Mum has suffered terribly from depression over the years, and I have had a couple of bouts of it too. Am I being pessimistic myself in visualising a dreadfully unhappy future for her?! I suppose I'm not sure I have the "feelgood" equipment myself.

I'm stunned!

Your OP could have been written by me. I too have 2 DDs (different ages to yours) but their characters are exactly as you describe. DD1 (10) is a constant worry to me and I too am concerned about how she will cope with life. I often blame myself for being a 'worrier' and quite a stressed person as I think she may have learned some of my behaviour, even though I try to protect my DDs from my negative thoughts.

Like you I have had depression in the past and other members of my family suffer from anxiety - but there's not a lot we can do about genes! For the record a psych. nurse informed me that a sensitive/negative thinking person is born with that disposition but that doesn't mean it can't be altered.

Sorry I can't give any advice to you as such. I just wanted you to know that you are certainly not alone with your concerns about your DD and I really empathise with your worries.

I shall watch this thread with interest.

Thankyou v much Caro. Hope I don't sound too intense! I was just thinking about it tonight when DD2 was putting out her Little Miss Sunshine T-shirt to wear tomorrow!

Agree that certain personality types are born not made, but I'm sure that how we manage our kids can help them to think more positively. I once read that we tend to use the same old pathways in the brain and if we go over and over the same worries, it's like ruts getting worn in a country road. I just want to get some happy tracks in there while she's young!

Wise old Mums, help me out!

Me, too. wish I had some answers. In fact, I was thinking of posting on this very subject myself. DD1 has been "difficult" since just a few months of age - I lost my mum just before she was born and I sometimes wonder whether stress hormones in pregnancy might have made things worse. DD2 has been a joy since the moment she was born and has remained sunny and enthusiastic about life since - it can't be genetic though as neither DH nor I am lucky enough to be like this! Fortunately I can honestly say that I love both DDs equally, but life is made difficult by frequent moaning by DD1, now 10Y, and it makes me feel guilty and sad that I don't know how to help her with her negative attitudes. she doesn't have a lot of emotional empathy or understanding so trying to talk to her about it doesn't really help - I just get a blank wall.

Can anybody help!

Or maybe recommend a good book?

I know there's a book called The Highly Sensitive Child which I read a few years ago (sorry - can't remember author but you could Google it). It described my DD to a tee and the emphasis was a very positive one ie to celebrate your sensitive child and recognise those traits as beneficial, rather than seeing them as a problem.

Come to think of it, maybe I should dig it out and read it again....

I think life generally is easier for second children - all the battles have already been fought for them, they've always had the reassuring constant presence of a sibling. And a lot of people are "glass half empty" sort of people, but they still have happy fulfilled lives.

She will be what she will be - I don't think there is much you can do to change such a fundamental aspect of a personality. As long as she's loved, which she clearly is, she will be fine. And a lot of the dissatisfaction/life's not fair outlook changes naturally with maturity.

Maybe the 1st dd is like this as this could be my op too

My DD1 isn't eldest child as I also have an older son. I have also read The Highly Sensitive Child (which I found excellent for DS, but for a different problem!), but DD1 doesn't seem sensitive really. She expects the world to revolve round her a bit too much really. The trouble is DD2 gets very positive feedback from everyone because she is such a "lovely" child, whereas DD1 doesn't and I suspect it reinforces the situation. But then I almost bend over backwards to make her feel she is loved and special- and then I feel DD2 gets a raw deal! It just goes round in circles.

There was a thread a few days/weeks ago regarding the poster's sensitive daughter - OP had a link to a custom-made Bach flower remedy which had helped no end.

Google should find it...I'll just have a quick look...

here...

www.bachshop.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=32

And the thread here...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/711844-Anxious-children-this-has-helped-mine

Good posts Baby - definitely worth a try, thanks.

I just wanted to say that my ds age 6 is a highly sensitive boy, he cries when things don't go his way, feels anxious, lacks confidence and won't even try when he finds things difficult. He is in a nurture group at school, and I spend alot of time boosting him up and telling him what he is good at. My dd, age 4 is a very positive little girl and people naturally give her alot of attention because she is so engaging and funny. I was also thinking of posting a similar thread on here about sensitive children, and will look at the thread, thanks BabyValentine.

I think this is actually a very common scenario between first and second children. Gender order plays a huge part in a child's character. We don't mean to, but we do treat them differently, and parent them differently and have higher expectations of the first than the seconds. Also, we are practising with the first one so all our anxieties are projected onto them. Sorry if I'm making it sound your fault! But it's normal, honest! Firstborns are much more likely to be perfectionists who can never meet their own expectations. A really fascinating book that covers this is by Oliver James, called 'They fuck you up, your parents.' (not as depressing and stupid as it sounds!)

Sorry, meant birth order, not gender order, obviously.

Sanae - your hypothesis is quite possible. There's a very interesting book called "Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers" about the human stress response which talks about how foetuses pick up constant signals about what the world is like outside, and it can affect them not only emotionally, but also physiologically (for example, if food is very short, the baby when born is actually more likely to store extra calories as fat). It's written by a proper scientist, not one of those pop-science people, I hasten to add. Very interesting.

As far as GeneGenie's problem goes - I would suggest exercise? In Child Of Our Time, Robert Winston looked at children who were inclined to optimism, and those inclined to pessimism. There was one "rogue" child who ought to have been inclined to pessimism but wasn't, and RW pointed to the enormous amount of exercise he did as the probable reason why.

Also - read up on the principles of CBT - you can teach her useful tools on how to rationalise her pessimism.

My family are natural pessimists but my sister (who did suffer a breakdown) seems to have really pulled through and is permanently positive and energetic now. She makes a point of looking at everything that is said or done in a positive way and giving it a humourous spin and it's infectious!!! From that I have concluded that for every negative, a positive opinion can be generated and if your DD voices anything negative as long as you hear her and reassure her, it can be no bad thing to teach her what the positive of that particular thing is too. Perhaps if she watches you being positive and quirky about things she will catch on??
I'm going to try to practise what I preach !

Message withdrawn

When you think how often we tell our eldest that they are the 'grown-up' ones who must look after baby, set an example, be good and help mummy, etc etc, it is little wonder that they grow up to be (usually) responsible and reliable, and high achievers but perhaps less happy-go-lucky than their younger siblings.

We also stress over every little development or (lack of) with firstborns whereas with subsequent babies we are more experienced, less paranoid, less demanding, and frankly we just don't have the time or inclination to give that same level of (slightly obsessive!!) attention to them. They learn go with the flow, whereas firstborns set our routine for us, and rule us with a rod of iron, younger babies arrive in a routine already set. They learn that they get by in life by generally being smiley and happy and a team player, whereas our firstborns get praise and attention by achieving, and reaching milestones.

I have three boys. DS1 was 2 and a 1/2 when DS2 was born. I am ashamed to say now that I expected more from him in terms of mature behaviour then (because at barely three he became a 'big boy' ) than I expected of DS3 by the time he was 7, because he was my baby and I indulged him! So naturally, he's charming and delightful, knows how to play to his audience, but is a spoilt and demanding brat at times as well. Entirely my fault.

DS1 is so reliable, well behaved, decent, sensible, utterly dependable and I'm really proud of him. He never let's me down. But he is also cantankerous curmudgeonly, risk-averse, and a little lacking in confidence - takes life a bit too seriously sometimes.

DS2, 2/3 years younger than DS1 and a 4/5 years older than DS3 is an extremely popular, optimistic self starter, very sociable, everyone's friend, class clown. However, he is the one who gives me the biggest headaches. He goes out of the way to be the opposite to DS1 (not always in a good way!) He's very bright but refuses to be a 'geek' or a 'nerd'. My gut feeling is that he will be extremely successful in life, but he's turning my hair grey and drving me to the gin in the meantime!

omg your op could have been mine, in fact for a sec I thought it was, and look how similar our names are...am slightly freaked out now ...will come back when freaky feeling has worn off and see if have anything useful to add...

[shivers]

someone earlier on mentioned buying The Highly Sensitive Child and I cannot recommend it enough.

My dd2 is just like you describe in your OP and the book really helps you to understand what is going on in their heads.

You should be able to get it from your local library, it's well worth a read.

Gosh - I could have written the op about my 6 year old dd! She is so sensible, kind and loving - but such a worrier. Dd2 on the other hand takes everything in her stride.

I was going to post about dd1 as she is struggling to fit in at school and worrying about her school work and this has got worse since dd3 arrived in December.

Very interesting to read other experiences and that we all seem to expect more of our first borns!

another vote for the highly sensitive child

also for http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Perceptive/dp/0060739665/ref=pd_sim_b_3 spirited child and books from this range

I haven't read that grumbling one but we have the sleep problem one from teh range and it has been very good, will probably get the grumbling one soon. I was always a real glass half empty kid and wish someone had tried to help me see another route. I just don't like the title of it - I don't want DD1 to think of herself as "a grumbler" with all those negative connotations...why couldn't they have called it something else...grumble grumble

Just come back to this and read all the recent messages. Thanks everyone for taking the trouble and for your long and lovely suggestions.

Agree Thankyou that a sense of humour and an optimistic twist on things are what's needed to try to encourage her to start thinking that way, but I suppose I don't always do it myself - that's what I meant by not having the right equipment. I am making an effort to think positive without being too Pollyanna - ish, and most of the time I'm doing OK. Hopefully it will wear off.

I am currently modelling myself on Mary Poppins.

I just wanted to add that I have similar situation with my 2 dds, but pregnancy no.1 was happy, relaxed upbeat, and no.2 was stressed, anxious, angry. Kind of blows that theory out of the water for me!