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BF's DD is a pain in the a**e. Really need some advice on how to deal with it

117 replies

ataloss · 01/04/2005 13:36

changed name for this in the (unlikely) event that friend might stumble across it. Sorry for length but I really am at a loss as to how to deal with this situation.

Have a very good friend with a DD same age as my DS (3.5). Sometimes they play together really well but her DD is a really drama queen and throws hideous tantrums if she doesn't get exactly her own way. This would be OK if BF didn't pander to her every wish but now it's starting to affect my DS. Example was yesterday they had tea together; they each had some vegetables; one in a green bowl and one in an orange bowl. My DS has the green bowl, cue much drama, flicking of hair and tears "but mummy I want the green bowl", "But darling you always want the orange bowl" etc. My DS is pretty easy going and normally in this situation he just gives her whatever she wants so he passes over the green bowl. 5 mins later "but I want the ORANGE bowl". Now at this point I would just say "tough, eat your tea and stop moaning" but no we have 5 more minutes of tears and bargaining from her mum and then the mum takes both bowls (including the one DS is eating from!) and says "right well neither of you can have the bowls then" and puts the food into two identical white bowls "OK, now you've got the same". BF's DD now takes it up a notch, wingeing, crying, etc etc. I was just standing there ignoring it and DS was sort of staring at her mystified (as he usually does when she behaves like this). Inside I was fuming thinking "why doesn't she just tell her to get on with it". Anyway, after a half hearted "you can't always have what you want" she takes both bowls back again and puts all the vegetables into the orange bowl, telling them to "share" the orange bowl. Poor DS hadn't even done anything FFS.

Silly example but this happens ALL the time. They just give into her and I feel it's starting to affect DS. In the car on the way home last night he said to me (where the DD is X):
?X gets cross doesn?t she? so I said ?well sometimes, but everyone gets cross sometimes? so he said ?mummy do I have to do what X wants?? so I said ?not all the time, no? so he said ?I do, because I just want to make X smile and that?s why I have to do what X wants?.
No I know it's not really a big deal but I thought how awful that he feels like that.

The big question is how do I deal with it when she starts acting up because fundementally the problem is always that she wants what DS has got and with teh mother not saying anything I'm left in the position of either saying "would you mind just giving it to X, sweetheart" just to keep the piece or not saying anything but then it's annoying when the mum takes things away from both of them just because her DD is playing up.

Sorry this is so long but I just don't know what to do. I get on really well with the mum but it's starting to do my head in.
BTW, not suggesting that my DS is an angel at all but 99.9%of the time, the tantrums arises because she wants whatever he's got (even if it's the same!)
I did tell her what he said to me in the car on the way home and she just said "ah well, she's a girl and he's a boy so he'd better get used to being told what to do!"

OP posts:
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ataloss · 01/04/2005 18:50

also I do think the behaviour kind of fuels itself IFYKWIM, so she throws a tantrum, gets what she wants so she tries it again next time and next time.

I don't think my friend sits there thinking "of course my sweet precious darling you can have what you want" I think she just gets exasperated and isn't sure how to make her stop. But I could be completely wrong of course, it's difficult to ask her diplomatically

OP posts:
Enid · 01/04/2005 18:50

well sometimes its nice to do what your kids want

ataloss · 01/04/2005 18:51

of course it is, but ALL the time, and when their behaviour is affecting other children?

OP posts:
Enid · 01/04/2005 18:51

ataloss, she probably has no idea how to handle it and is hideously embarrassed - especially if your ds is so good.

I think it is mean of you all to assume it is all the parents fault though, I really do.

Mud · 01/04/2005 19:17

Enid - not sure why your taking this so personally, I think most people think that it is the parents fault simply because it is. ait is bad parenting pure and simple, its not rocket science that if you give in to a child's tantrum or whining you let itknow that is what it needs to do to get its own way. it is really not nice to do what your kids want all the itme

ambrosia · 01/04/2005 19:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bobbybob · 01/04/2005 19:43

I am currently having some time out from a friend and her two children, after her ds kicked up so much fuss about the orange slices running out at ds's birthday party that the boys father stole a piece of orange off another kids plate to shut him up. He then tantrumed every time any kid took any toy (every time one dared look at a toy he wanted it). Nobody just told this kid that the orange had all gone and that was that or that he had to wait for a turn on the toy. The parents just took things off other kids, or let him take them.

Maybe I will pick up the friendship when she learns how to effectively manage her ds, maybe I'll have found other friends by then.

ataloss · 01/04/2005 19:48

I suppose I just don't understand what goes through the mind of a parent who would do that in that sort of situation, it just would never occur to me (in the same way as "Boys bananas" never occured to me - a banana is a banana fgs)

OP posts:
Jimjams · 01/04/2005 20:10

The behaviour sound entirely normal for her age (ds2 is like this a lot). It's the mothers' reaction that's off. Something that works well with ds2 is to say something like "orange bowl or nothing". He doesn't usually have to think for long!

Wallace · 01/04/2005 20:13

Dd (3.5) is very strong willed. And sometimes I find it is a good idea to "give in" straight away before the tantrum starts, but only if it is something that is not important to me. Fortunatly I am just as bl**dy stubborn as she is, and I NEVER give way to a tantrum

It does sound like this girl has learnt she can get her own way all the time. I think your idea of establishing groundrules before you go on holiday is a very good one. See if you two can sit down together and maybe even put it in writing!

MrsMiggins · 01/04/2005 21:20

Sorry Enid "I think it is mean of you all to assume it is all the parents fault though, I really do" but I agree with everyone but you.
This is a joke.
You dont get bad dogs, just bad owners.
Same for children.
If you dont show the boundaries, dogs/children get confused and dont know what to do...and have tantrums.
Jimjams - "orange bowl or nothing" works every time.
I too have a friend who gives in to tantrums or doesnt carry out threats & is ruled by child - we havent seen them for a month cos said child makes ALL other children cry by pinching toys/food - mothers reaction? "give XX a kiss & say sorry"...child has learnt can bully/pinch and just has to kiss & thats OK....not!

ScummyMummy · 01/04/2005 21:31

Steady on, MrsMiggins. Sounds like ataloss's mate is a bit wet with her little girl, sure, but none of us gets it right all the time and some kids are harder work than others, no? Handling our kids when they're playing up is something we all have to learn to do, to a certain extent, especially with first children. I'll do some things a bit differently if I ever have another, I'm sure. I've heard lots of people saying that they are far less strict or more strict or whatever with their younger kids before now.

ambrosia · 01/04/2005 21:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMiggins · 01/04/2005 21:45

ambrosia - will let you know as DD is 10mths so will see how she potty trains!
I think it si just my DS - he & DH are sooooooo laid back they are horizontal!!

ScummyMummy - I guess ur right - I just felt that Enid was taking it personally & not trying to help Ataloss.

Parenting is very hard but being strict is sometimes seen as negative rather than letting a child "express themselves"
Just dont see that at this early age.

My DS is an absolute dream - v laid back, tries to have tantrums but realises doesnt get u anywhere - as adults not acceptable so surely better to start young?

Enid · 01/04/2005 22:07

What is a joke? To assume that some children are more difficult/challenging than others? That parents might be grateful for the help of another? That someone who you judge now could be you tomorrow?

Loving the dog/child analogy btw (err...not). So what would you do with a child who bites and pinches other than getting them to apologise? Send them out to their kennel? Fgs.

MrsMiggins · 01/04/2005 22:16

enid - by your own admission you have taken this thread personally rather than trying to help Ataloss.
My point was that it is easy to blame the child when you as the adult are faciltating the behaviour. Stealing/pinching is NOT acceptable. Time out/ being ignored gives the right signal. asking your child to "kiss XX better" is rubbish. My DD 10 mths will kiss to order - she doesnt understand the meaning.
Yes children have tantrums/misbehave - ignore bad behaviour/ reward good is the answer

Enid - I say again - u r taking this personally & not TRYING to help Ataloss

Enid · 01/04/2005 22:24

Yes, I am taking it personally - in that it is something I have experience of.

But I have offered ataloss some constructive suggestions.

You sound very sure of yourself. It must be nice to live in such a black and white world

Enid · 01/04/2005 22:28

and personally I have had very good results asking my children to apologise/hug xx better as I believe in a certain amount of personal responsibility even at a young age.

Enid · 01/04/2005 22:28

can I just say personally again

Enid · 01/04/2005 22:28

personally

Jimjams · 01/04/2005 22:29

I agree with Wallace that often its best to avoid a tantrum. We do a lot of this with ds1 as I know what sets him off. I try (and often fail) to keep things reasonable though, but if it affects someone else then it dooes have to stop. I am a bit dog trainy with him, but then I have to be.

I reason more with ds2, but he would argue the hind legs of a donkey and has an answer for everything which is why it often comes doown to "x or nothing". Took me a while to find that approach though.

Mud · 01/04/2005 22:39

around the age of 3 I started to explain to my children that 'saying sorry is sometimes not good enough' by around 4 they've normally grasped that concept

flashingnose · 01/04/2005 22:51

Very interesting this as I've been on both sides too. An example:

DS and DD1 have been swimming. Fling towel round ds and off he goes to get dry. Do same for dd1 and she starts creating because I haven't put the towel round her right. I then try to correct this, but only make the situation worse. Cue hurried dressing of screaming child and speedy exit. Now to anyone watching, they would have thought she was a complete spoilt brat and I was pandering to her. But how the towel is put round her bothers her, as do a myraid of other things she encounters every day. None of these things bother ds. I can tell her not to be so silly until I'm blue in the face but it's not going to stop her.

However, where ataloss's friend is going wrong is by dragging ataloss's ds into things i.e. making him give things up when he's done nothing wrong. But tbh, friend's reactions smack of complete embarrassment to me. You could possibly have a quiet word with ds to explain why your friend reacts in this way and to say that's not how you look after guests in your house.

Incidentally, dd1 is now 4.5 and is the sweetest, most easygoing little girl you could wish for (most of the time ).

flashingnose · 01/04/2005 23:03

Not sure I'd go on holiday with them though...

bossykate · 01/04/2005 23:42

agree with enid and am amazed that there are so many perfect children/parents on this thread when the rest of MN is full of us-struggling-to-do-our-best...

do not go on holiday with these people! whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it is clear that your different attitudes to parenting will end up making you all very miserable.