BF's DD is a pain in the a**e. Really need some advice on how to deal with it

[ataloss]

changed name for this in the (unlikely) event that friend might stumble across it. Sorry for length but I really am at a loss as to how to deal with this situation.

Have a very good friend with a DD same age as my DS (3.5). Sometimes they play together really well but her DD is a really drama queen and throws hideous tantrums if she doesn't get exactly her own way. This would be OK if BF didn't pander to her every wish but now it's starting to affect my DS. Example was yesterday they had tea together; they each had some vegetables; one in a green bowl and one in an orange bowl. My DS has the green bowl, cue much drama, flicking of hair and tears "but mummy I want the green bowl", "But darling you always want the orange bowl" etc. My DS is pretty easy going and normally in this situation he just gives her whatever she wants so he passes over the green bowl. 5 mins later "but I want the ORANGE bowl". Now at this point I would just say "tough, eat your tea and stop moaning" but no we have 5 more minutes of tears and bargaining from her mum and then the mum takes both bowls (including the one DS is eating from!) and says "right well neither of you can have the bowls then" and puts the food into two identical white bowls "OK, now you've got the same". BF's DD now takes it up a notch, wingeing, crying, etc etc. I was just standing there ignoring it and DS was sort of staring at her mystified (as he usually does when she behaves like this). Inside I was fuming thinking "why doesn't she just tell her to get on with it". Anyway, after a half hearted "you can't always have what you want" she takes both bowls back again and puts all the vegetables into the orange bowl, telling them to "share" the orange bowl. Poor DS hadn't even done anything FFS.

Silly example but this happens ALL the time. They just give into her and I feel it's starting to affect DS. In the car on the way home last night he said to me (where the DD is X):
?X gets cross doesn?t she? so I said ?well sometimes, but everyone gets cross sometimes? so he said ?mummy do I have to do what X wants?? so I said ?not all the time, no? so he said ?I do, because I just want to make X smile and that?s why I have to do what X wants?.
No I know it's not really a big deal but I thought how awful that he feels like that.

The big question is how do I deal with it when she starts acting up because fundementally the problem is always that she wants what DS has got and with teh mother not saying anything I'm left in the position of either saying "would you mind just giving it to X, sweetheart" just to keep the piece or not saying anything but then it's annoying when the mum takes things away from both of them just because her DD is playing up.

Sorry this is so long but I just don't know what to do. I get on really well with the mum but it's starting to do my head in.
BTW, not suggesting that my DS is an angel at all but 99.9%of the time, the tantrums arises because she wants whatever he's got (even if it's the same!)
I did tell her what he said to me in the car on the way home and she just said "ah well, she's a girl and he's a boy so he'd better get used to being told what to do!"

do the praising thing a lot anyway, with BOTH of them. I think the dad is worse than the mum, he literally will give her anything just to get an easy life. We all went to pizza express (6 of us) and we all had to move because X didn't want to sit where she was sitting. We kind of went along wiht it because it's very difficult to go "well actually I'm not moving" - it creates tension between the adults IFYKWIM

agree twiglett, probably not the best example.

but having your bowl switched 3 times when you're trying to eat ain't so great.
And yes, I do feel a bit of an idiot agreeing to go away, I'm sure it'll be fine...

do I think it OK - no, I don't. But I don't think you can put all the blame on the parents. Some children are more like this than other children. I actually feel a bit sorry for her. It is clear from your posts that you are disparaging about the way that an old friend has chosen to raise her children - that is nothing to do with you. If she spoils her kids, so what. No, its not nice, but thats they way they have chosen to do it. However, if it impinges on your child then you need to step in.

I wouldnt have let the bowl thing get that far, my house or not - and I wouldnt have wound her up about Pocahontas either. It cuts both ways IME.

I'm equally sure it will be hellish and I would find an excuse to cancel NOW

really ataloss its a very very Bad idea

you give in to them as much as they give in to her!

please dont go on the holiday then come back saying how awful they all were - you know that already!!!

But Enid I couldn't stop the bloody bowl thing. it was out of my hands, I did try to say "let's just forget about the bowls" but the mum ended up caving. I really like the little girl, don't get me wrong and yes I agree that it's totally their choice to bring her up how they like but I was just asking for advice on how best to deal with it because it is a difficult situation. I do really like the parents and I find it hard to know how to deal with these kinds of situations. Also I'd say again, I agree that some children are more like this than others (just like some newborns are an utter nightmare and some sleep all the time) BUT I also think that you can minimise this kind of behaviour and IMO they are making it worse for her (and themselves) because they are always walking on eggshells in case she doens't get what she wants and explodes again.
Just wanted advice really, I'm really not judging

Actually I agree that some children are more like that others but I also think that the parents of 'those' children should deal with it more firmly

My DS does it occasionally, I don't pander to it. I know at least one of his friends who did it a lot, his mother felt the same as I did. He stopped after a few months

I however am judging

Enid you do seem a bit chippy about it. DOn't worry I won't post back about the holiday, IF I go!

OK that's it, i will stand firm.
thanks all

ataloss

just imagine the bowl incident happening 20 times a day, nowhere to escape to, you can't pack up and go home

you are faced with your friends totally spoiling their DD, after all it is a holiday, what do you do with your DS?

so you start getting irritated, and swallowing it down, then annoyed and swallowing it down, then you realise you've paid for this holiday and all you want is to go home

it really doesn't sound like a great idea - it sounds like a nightmare

I know I sound a bit chippy. I think I was in a similar situation to you once - but reversed! so it has irritated me. Sorry. Not your fault.

Anyway, there is light at the end of the tunnel as my very high-maintenance dd (who I know friends of ours thought I spoiled) is lovely now. It was a phase and it passed. So hopefully that will happen here - or you will both have new babies and the first two will fend for themselves. They'll probably end up being great friends .

BUT I would NOT recommend the holiday. If you are sensitive enough to get wound up over whether Pocahontas is a princess or not you are going to have a nightmare - sorry.

Your ds sounds really sweet !

dd has a friend who is a bit like this, competitive, always wanting what the other has and mother inclined to give in. She has got better as she has got older but it started by her being on the receiving end of such behaviour from her brother (friend of ds). The way sharing has been encouraged is by allowing the child with it a finite time with the toy (ie 10 pushes on the swing) before switching. It may seem slightly unfair to curtail an activity but it is something they have to learn to accept. Does friend's dd go to any sort of playgroup where she may have to learn to share better and take turns.

I wouldn't have liked the bowl incident but probably would have offered an initial choice and made them stick to it - difficult one though when you are not "host". The banana thing just baffles me. Fine, she calls it a Princess but you call her Pocahontas just let it go !

tbh Your friend sounds like she is struggling to keep control of things and her daughter is constantly pushing her to blur the boundaries. Maybe she just doesn't even realise the extent to which she caves (possibly for an easier life) and the effect it has on others.

Are you likely to have any independence (ie own transport) on this holiday ? Have you been away with them before. Sorry but it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.

Sorry I don't buy this high maintenance stuff. Being highly strung is not an excuse to expect everyone to run around after you. ds1 would love too control everyone in the house, but expecting everyone to sit in the dark on xmas day, or expecting to be taken outside 6 times in 15 minutes is too restrictive on other family members. So he isn't allowed to do it, and he screams, but he also learns that he has to try and manage his behaviour (although it is far far harder for him- and far far harder for us to manage his behaviour).

If her mother wants to run around after her fine, but she shouldn't expect opther children to. That's what winds me up about a friend who is similar in this respect.

I think you're right in saying that she caves in for an eaiser life, I definitely think that's the case with a lot of it, particularly with the dad.
We have been away with them before and it was ok but we had our own villa, this time I'm staying with them but I will have my own car so could go off and do our own thing if need be.
Enid, I honestly don't see that they are 'spoiling', in actual fact the DD is controlling her mum, sometimes it's so blatant, you can literally see her testing whether or not she'll get her own way. TO me spoiling is when you give them whatever they want in a material sense but this is to do with behaviour, of course sometimes you let things go, we all do but ALL the time. I honestly believe that if they put their foot down she would fairly quickly stop it.
jimjams - agree that being highly strung is not an excuse for having it all your own way.

that last bit should have been a question as in
"do you let it (that kind of behaviour) go ALL the time?"

but some children go through phases of getting really genuinely upset by something that seems pathetic to us (pocohantas/princess) - also if she is always wanting what your ds has she may lack a lot of self-esteem rather than be purely manipulative. I am not condoning bad behaviour, I just think that rages etc at 3.5 are pretty normal actually.

"I honestly believe that if they put their foot down she would stop it..." has your ds ever had a tantrum? What would you think if a passerby/friend/relative said that to you?

I agree it sounds as though she needs some boundaries but don't you think you are being a bit judgemental?

completely agree enid that for 3 yr olds some (to us relatively trivial) things assume huge importance but that's not really the issue here. The issue is that she has to have her own way, with everything. If she doesn't then she throws a fit, and when she gets what she wants; to move seats, or a particular coloured bowl, or a the other particular coloured bowl, or a less bent banana or anything, then she stops.

Yes of course he's had a tantrum, lots of them.
what is wrong with saying "here is a choice, make a choice and then you stick to it, you can't suddently decide to change your mind and take the other thing of another child". Sorry, but that's just wrong IMO. But this is turning into a debate about parenting which was never my intention.

nothing is wrong with saying that. But that is what you are going to have to say. My point is that you can't expect your friend to change the way she parents. Maybe she thinks she has a lovely close bond with her dd. As others have said, if she is still like this at schoolage it won't last long

ah, ok, I see what you're saying. I suppose I'm worried that it's not my place to tell her DD what she can and can't do, especially when her own mum is giving her exactly what she wants.

I'm going to try though because it's doing my head in.

They are turning her into a manipulative little Princess. It is so sad.

did you see the supernany episode where the parents were so weak they let their 2 yr old boy turn off all the lights and the TV they were watching and sat there in the dark rather than take on his tantrums. He was so much happier when he had this hideous amount of power removed from him.

How did our generation of parents get so feeble? Since when did we have to do what our kids want? Our parents were in charge of us, not vice versa.

Was at a park with friends with two ds's. It was February and freezing and we wanted lunch. She said "The boys want to eat outside". And she was about to sit outside in drizzle cos that s what they wanted. Until I said, "sod it, I m not going to be bossed around by a 7-year-old" and we all went indoors.

no I think its perfectly OK. You can be prepared now, if you get the bowls out then ask her what colour she wants first (if she is guest!) then thats the one she gets. If she has a paddy, and your friend says, 'oh let her have thee other one' say, 'sorry, no, come on this is silly' and try and distract her. You may find your friend is grateful

JimJams & Ataloss - quite agree

As for this kind of behaviour being just a phase or nothing to do with the parent, I bet same parents take credit when said children do nice things or show good manners. Cant have it both ways.