Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

blueshoes - really hats off to you for working and having disturbed sleep - I know myself that I cant manage it. Indeed when we tried to cosleep we found that dd wouldnt go back to sleep after being fed (though my ds would) so it didnt work for us at all.

As I was trying to say before: different children have different needs and it can be quite hard to recognise if you're used to doing things a certain way - or see yourself as a certain sort of parent - I dont understand why we need to label eachother and ourselves in this way anyway.

crush - isnt it that after the two days of sleep training of whatever method - then the child expects to go to sleep at 7pm (or whatever arbitrary time) it isnt like the parent has to fight to get them down then. I think that point of the whole thing is being slightly overlooked.

I sometimes feel that people who dont want to/havent sleeptrained use the argument that their child will be emotionally better off for the rest of their lives to cover up for the fact that they are a little bit envious.

Almost as if the fact that the child doesnt sleep shows people what a good parent you are because you havent forced them to.

Daddyj... Thanks for all the links, they make very interesting reading..
I have asked many many times on here for those who are vehemently opposed to CC for the evidence that it is damaging. Phrases such as "baby giving up" and "lost trust" are bandied around without any evidence, it's just someones opinion.

I used a form of CC with both my children and easily within a week they were settling themselves for night and afternoon sleeps. Consequently they were happier and content during the day as they had quality sleep. My sil has a 12 month old baby and she is against CC. She still has to help settle her baby to sleep, plus resettle 2-3 times a night. Baby is unable to settle himself back to sleep without the comfort of his mums cuddle, consequently he has to cry to wake her. I actually feel sad for him that he has to cry 2-3 times in the night as he doesn't feel secure enough to resettle.

I accept that some people don't want to do this and that's up to them, i don't see why i should be criticised for my methods that work for us as a family.

Barnsleybelle: "I actually feel sad for him that he has to cry 2-3 times in the night as he doesn't feel secure enough to resettle."

I don't understand your sentence. How does CC makes a child feel secure to resettle? How does leaving a child to cry make it feel secure? And going to a baby when it wakes is not in itself a form of comforting a baby?

Fine you don't want to go to a baby that wakes in the night. But to suggest that babies, who do have parents that are prepared to do that because they feel that their baby needs nighttime parental contact for longer, are not secure is missing the wood for the trees.

DD was 4 months when we stopped night feeds and "taught" her to sleep through the night.

It wasn't CC, because we never left her alone to cry. She was held, rocked, sang to, etc anything and everything for comfort, except milk.

We were up most of the first night.
Crying less than 1 hour the second night.
Slept through third night.

And has been sleeping through ever since.

Sorry, but nobody here is convincing me that was cruel.

I think I might have had quite naturally good sleepers so I won't profess to know much, but I have had 3 babies.

I left the first 2 to cry if I knew they were tired when they were a few months old. They never cried for more than 5 minutes so I presume, as juule said, that they were the kind of babies who needed to be left alone to fall asleep. Number 3, however, just could not settle herself. It was clear very early on that leaving her to cry was never going to work. So she got a dummy - worked wonders. Taking her into bed with me didn;t help her to fall asleep, it was that plug she wanted.

I suppose what I'm saying is that couldn't there be some middle ground between co-sleeping and leaving to cry? I'm suprised no-one has mentioned comfort objects (sorry if someone has and I missed it).

Haven't studies shown that babies and small children benefit from having routine and it helps them to feel safe and secure?
Therefore, it makes perfect sense to put your baby to bed at a set time (ie 7pm like we've always done) IMO.
As for CC, I've done it with ds and will do it with ds2 if need be.

littleboyblue, some children like routine and others like to play it by ear. Just like some adults are bound by routine and others are more flexible.

Beneficial routine does not mean a rigid watch-the-clock schedule.

"I sometimes feel that people who dont want to/havent sleeptrained use the argument that their child will be emotionally better off for the rest of their lives to cover up for the fact that they are a little bit envious.

Almost as if the fact that the child doesnt sleep shows people what a good parent you are because you havent forced them to. "

Seems a very strange thing to think/say.
I doubt that there would be many (any?) parents who would set themselves up for sleepless nights purely as a way of thinking that they make themselves look better parents than someone else.
More likely they have beliefs that lead them to do/not do things the way they do.

giantkate

'I sometimes feel that people who dont want to/havent sleeptrained use the argument that their child will be emotionally better off for the rest of their lives to cover up for the fact that they are a little bit envious. - Almost as if the fact that the child doesnt sleep shows people what a good parent you are because you havent forced them to.'

Are you implying that children whose parents do not do CC don't sleep? That's a very silly assumption if so!

I'd also be interested in the definition of good sleeper vs bad sleep. What would you call a child who sleeps enough, but just not at times convenient for their parents?

littleboyblue There are studies out there that sugggest that I believe, but it is more to do with children knowing what to expect and what comes next. This isn't the same as doing things by the clock. Babies can't tell the time. (you might like to have a cuppa when you get up, but you don't need it to be 7am on the dot, it can probably be whenever you wake or HAVE to get up)

Just to clarify one thing--a lot of people who use a form of CC DO use the baby's sleep pattern. That's why you wait until they're older. They've shown you when they need to go to bed. That becomes their bedtime. You don't just pick a time.

Our babies seemed to be ready to go into their cots between six and seven. So that's where we started. They seemed to like to wake up at half-four or five. So, to start with, we worked towards getting them to sleep from about seven to half-four.

The fact that it worked for both of them, so quickly, indicated to me that we were simply nudging them along a route they'd already chosen.

They are both very affectionate, demonstrative children who are quite articulate about their needs. I don't think we've harmed them in any way. I also think I could give them more because I wasn't shattered all the time.

Barnsleybelle:I think you are being very judgemental about your SIL.The fact that you say he cant resettle himself and cries to wake his mother surely is because he trusts his mother, it sounds like he can rely on her and has a good attachment because he knows that his mother will come.You suggest that he is insecure because he cant resettle himself, I see it as being secure and that he trusts his mother.You know its quite normal for a baby of 12 months to wake during the night 2-3 times, especially if you are still BF.

"What would you call a child who sleeps enough, but just not at times convenient for their parents?"

Like, sleeps all day and awake all night? Or Wakes up at 5 AM for the day?

I would call that "hell".

At one point, DD was waking up at 5:30-6:00 for the day. DH and I are not morning people, so we kind of ignored her until a more reasonable hour. Very soon, she was waking up at 8:00-9:00 AM.

Some parents feel that everything a baby does is sacred, and none of it should be tampered with, lest the said baby be damaged for life (or something). They don't seem to realize that a baby's habits are quite malleable, and that there is nothing wrong with guiding him into a new set of habits that are in better harmony with the rest of the family.

Oonagh - Are you really under the impression that children who sleep through the night (i.e. who go back to sleep on their own when they wake in the night) don't trust their mothers and are insecure?

A very bizarre statement. Do you have any basis for this belief? Real, scientific basis, I mean.

Having children is extremely hard, especially with the lack of sleep. Im not a morning person either but both Dds at some point woke for the day from 5 onwards, its a stage it doesnt last forever. I have no support other than Dh and I know how tough those days were.
There are other methods for sleep like I have said before, the baby whisperer has techniques ( Ssh pat and the pick up put down method) they do work, they require alot of work form the parent but for me it was better than sitting outside a room listening to my baby crying.CC was never an option for that reason.

I didnt say that they were insecure did I you are stating that I said that and I am not insinuating that they are.

oonagh... I am not being judgemental re my sil at all. I adore her and we are very close. She parents in ways that are different to me and we chat comfortably about our experiences.

My children will cry in the night should they need me and i respond immediately. Also your comment re BF is not relevant to this. Noone on this thread is advocating leaving a baby to cry when they are hungry for goodness sake..

What i am trying to say is that my sil's baby cries simply to be assisted back to sleep. he is not hungry, in pain etc. She simply cuddles and sings to him until he goes back off and then lowers him carefully before he wakes. I find that complete madness (and she knows i think this, we laugh about it). All babies come into a light sleep throughout the night, i think it's nice when they can babble and then drift back off without having to put themselves through tears to get support to cry. I would never ever ignore tears in the night for food etc.

starlight - did I mention any good or bad sleepers? And you're right I dont know any bf babies under one who have slept through on their own without any intervention at all - though again i didnt do cc with my dd but did go over and comfort and not feed after 6 months (actually by that stage she just needed loud shushing from the bed) - now she doesnt need shushing and doesnt cry out in the night (though of course here some would say this is because I have denied her comfort hence the difficulty).

Am sure of course though that they must exist - am not saying that, just that I dont know any. Am not sure what you mean by at times convenient for the parents though - isnt it a balance between their needs and the rest of the households needs? If at a certain point they need to get up at 7 to be out of the house quite early what happens if they have gone to bed later?

juuule - I dont think people set themselves up for sleepless nights of course not but I think if you have dcs that sleep through you are sometimes tarred with the authoritarian brush because the assumption is that they shouldnt and if they do then you must have made them in some awful cio way - just like demand feeding - an expression I find difficult and judgemental which I why I am now adopting (I think its tiktoks) cue-led feeding instead.

I just dont like the whole separate camps business...

Yes, actually, you are insinuating just that.

You see a 12 month old who doesn't sleep through (i.e. needs mother to resettle every time he wakes up) "sounds like he can rely on her and has a good attachment" and said "I see it as being secure and that he trusts his mother"

Meaning, a 1 year old child who sleeps through (i.e. resettles on his own when he wakes up, as we all do) (1) can't rely his mum (2) doesn't have a good attachment with his mum (3) is not secure (4) does not trust his mother

All of which is nonsense.

giantkate... Both my dc's slept through without intervention well before 1. When i say sleep through, i mean they woke (as we all do) but resettled themselves. Of course if they were ill then that's totally different.

This thread has become very depressing. It has become an exercise in defensiveness and I can feel myself wanting to respond to many posts here and defend my chosen method of parenting. But then I would be contradicting my earlier post that said ALL CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT. So hey maybe we are all right. Let's stop making each other feel bad. Jeez

yes I know barnsley but you used cc didnt you?

'I used a form of CC with both my children and easily within a week they were settling themselves for night and afternoon sleeps'

i was saying that I didnt know any bf babies who had learnt how to settle themselves without anything at all.

I agree scifinerd - they all need different responses. With my dcs I have been forced to swallow my hypocrisy on a number of occasions about things I said I wouldnt do etc.

Cotedazur- I know what I meant and I was NOT insinuating that, this is your analysis of what I said. You are the one talking nonsense.

starlightWhen ds was young I actually did clockwatch, for everything. If he was still asleep at 8am, I woke him, he fed at the same time each day, napped at the same, we went out at the same time and as he got older, he played with certain toys for the same amount of time, had the tv on at the same time, story time at the same time, etc etc.
I did everything to the minute up until he weaned when things calmed down a bit.
I don't think there was anything wrong in that and ds is a happy, loving boy.
I also did CC and did it very early because it felt right for us.
I don't think CC is cruel at all, but it's a decision all of us need to make for our own children. We shouldn't judge others parenting skills, if you don't like it, you don't do it. That simple.

barnsleybelle: "All babies come into a light sleep throughout the night, i think it's nice when they can babble and then drift back off without having to put themselves through tears to get support to cry."

Yes, it would be nice if children could babble themselves back to sleep. Do you think ALL babies can do this? By your own admission, your dcs could self-settle without tears. So who are you to comment on the security (or not) of babies who don't do this and want the reassurance of their parents?