Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

[Neenztwinz]

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

Sakura, there is so much I disagree with in your post...

In countries where babies are out in the evening, don't those children have a bedtime? They do, it is just later (and they probably have an afternoon nap). It is not even faintly ridiculous to say kids need a bedtime.

With CC, babies are not left every night to cry to go to sleep at a particular bedtime - it takes 2-3 days of some crying in order to establish the bedtime and then they go down at that time without a murmur.

'It really does sound like the baby is a little commodity that the mother is trying to organise because to "fit" in to her lifestyle.'

This is arrogant and offensive. I have had children because I want a family, I want to experience the joys of my own kids. I put them to bed at 7pm because they need a good night's sleep and I need some time alone with my DH or to catch up on chores. The next day we are all refreshed and ready to enjoy another wonderful day together. In no way is that trying to organise my babies to fit into my lifestyle. I tell you, my lifestyle was much different before children.

'Yes, its a PITA having babies and kids running around in the evening, but isn't that what we sign up for when we choose to have a child.'

No that is not what we sign up to - why do kids need to be a pita? They should be happy, contented, rested... having my kids run around in the evening is not what I signed up to nor do I see any benefits to signing up to it.

'You can't compartmentalise children's lives and give them alloted times to do particular things and then "train" them to do those things by letting them cry.'

Well yes you can, it is called CC and there are many other ways in which to do it that are not CC. I have a compartmentalised life - I go to bed at 10, get up at 7.30, come on MN at 9, have my lunch at 12 etc etc, that IS life. It is compartmentalised.

'Children are everywhere all the time and in your face and thats part of the job IMO.'

Not if they sleep from 7-7.

Your story of your friend who couldn't believe how easy your child falls asleep... if she used Ferber then her babies should be going to sleep that easily too. She is doing something wrong if they are still crying themselves to sleep every night.

'So I do think that long-term there are knock on effects on having let your baby cry himself to sleep and that they may manifest later, even if its something as simple as the classic 'fear of the dark', or simply not wanting to go to bed.'

Possibly, that is the point of this thread... nobody knows the true effects. But I know that both my babies are happy to go in their cots wide awake and settle themselves to sleep, in the dark, and to resettle themsleves throughout the night. So, no, I don't believe that they are suddenly going to start being afraid of the dark or that I have done them any lasting harm. They are perfectly happy babies.

'At the other end of the spectrum the baby has learnt that you will not come if it cries at night.'

I always go to them if they cry in the night, whenever they cry I go to them. CC is not about leaving your child alone to cry.

I thought Sakura's post was great.

I thought a lot of Sakura's post was good, too.
Although I would say that I don't wholly agree with the statement
"Yes, its a PITA having babies and kids running around in the evening"

LOL juuule I don't really agree with that either.

DP and I are rather when DD takes herself off to bed at 7pm some nights after a very big day at school. We don't like the silence one little bit.

Neenz -
"if she used Ferber then her babies should be going to sleep that easily too. She is doing something wrong if they are still crying themselves to sleep every night."

Does this method work 100% for 100% of children that it's used on?
I think it's very harsh to say that because somebody's baby doesn't react to something in the way 'a book' says they should then the parent is assumed to be the one doing something wrong.

I haven't read the whole thread but it strikes me that some people haven't grasped the actual technique/point of controlled crying.
The whole technique is based around the fact that your baby knows you are there (when you go in every minute or two) but that its time for sleep. They see you but they just don't get picked up. Where is the trust issue in that? It takes two or three days to sort out - it's not some abusive long drawn out process.
I did it with both my DDs and have no regrets. They were happy babys and are now happy children. I have to say also that the fact that they slept every night made everything else fall into place (eating, behaviour etc) and they therefore had two rested and happy parents.

I have to say calling people cruel and controlling is not helpful.
Would you say that to someone in real life? Thought not.

I thought Sakura's post was great too, agree with every word.

The simple fact is that those of us who let babies cry for a bit for a few days when they were months old now sleep soundly in the night and so do our children. These children are also happy, go to sleep easily, have no fear of the dark, and have no attachment/love problems whatsoever.

If it makes you feel better during sleep-deprived nights to claim those few hours of tears have devastating long term effects, fine. But don't pretend that this is a fact, because it isn't.

anna - i think every child's sleep suddenly slots into place when they go to preschool/nursery/school etc just as not every child responds well to cc and to say so is a bit misleading - we all know families where this hasnt been the case...

anna that should say 'I dont think every childs sleep suddenly slots into place'

i did controlled crying for 1 night with both my dc when they reached 6 months old. they were fed,changed,cuddled and very knackered by the time i put them in the cot and i stayed with them so they could see me. ds (now 7) and dd learnt to fall asleep by themselves and neither minds the dark at all. dd is now almost 8 months old and sleeps through the night. this means that we are all well rested and i have enough time and energy to spend quality time with her and ds without feeling sleep deprived. everyone including hv and gp have said that they never met such a calm and happy baby and the same can be said for ds. i would never let one of them go to sleep crying if they were unhappy or ill and neither would my dh.

ah, but is it controlled screaming, Umlellala?

'Does this method work 100% for 100% of children that it's used on?
I think it's very harsh to say that because somebody's baby doesn't react to something in the way 'a book' says they should then the parent is assumed to be the one doing something wrong.'

I think if it didn't work for that woman's children she wouldn't have kept trying it night after night. I suppose what I was trying to say was I don't really believe Sakura's story! In fact, IME it is children whose parents have used sleep-training techniques who go to sleep that easily. They don;t need to be rocked/cuddled to sleep, they just go into their cots at bedtime and go to sleep.

A lot of my antenatal class friends, who had babies the same time as me, are amazed when they come to my house, because when either of my babies gets cranky I just put him/her in their cot and they go to sleep. A very similar story to Sakura's - so what does that say about our differing techniques? Not much, probably only that all babies are different and you might get the same result using different techniques and different results using the same technique.

You don't believe Sakura's story

So you do really believe that all babies respond the same way to 'sleep-training'?

Oh ffs. There are studies out there showing that babies who have done sleep training are happier and more settled and calmer than ones who aren't. So is it 'cruel' not to help babies learn to sleep properly? No. It's just a different parenting style. Nobody is leaving children for hours and hours. Just teaching them that they can go to sleep by themselves. Babies do cry simply because they are tired, you know.

And sleep is really important for development. And for healthy, happy, responsive parents too. I'm a better, nicer parent if I've not been up half the night.

I used controlled crying when I was at university, single, with a 8 month old baby and no family within 200 miles.

There was no way I could have been a good mother or completed my degree if I was getting up at 4 or 5 every morning to see to him.

It took days, not weeks, for him to start sleeping 8pm til 7am every night and he's been a fantastic sleeper ever since.

He's a very happy, well behaved child (nearly 3 now) and I have no regrets or worries at all, the way I see it - If he's wakes up at 5 and I go to him he thinks "aha, 5 o'clock is getting up time" and he'll wake up at 5 every morning. If I get him up at 7 every single morning he quickly learns that there's no point being awake before then.

Juule, i don't really know if all babies respond the same way to sleep training, I haven't really thought about it. Both my children responded the same way and, yes, now thinking about, I do think CC will work on pretty much any child (there will always be exceptions), as long as that child is otherwise well eg is not ill. I'm not saying I am right, but yes it is what I think.

But that is another thing we cannot prove/disprove, I suppose.

I agree wholeheartedly with:The simple fact is that those of us who let babies cry for a bit for a few days when they were months old now sleep soundly in the night and so do our children. These children are also happy, go to sleep easily, have no fear of the dark, and have no attachment/love problems whatsoever. If it makes you feel better during sleep-deprived nights to claim those few hours of tears have devastating long term effects, fine. But don't pretend that this is a fact, because it isn't.

Well said CoteDAzur.

My DC responded really well to the reassurance I gave when finding their appropriate bedtimes at 6 months. I believe that CC allowed me to use my instinct about my DC's tiredness(i.e.it was time for bed!), and my ability to comfort.

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its not even a little bit the same as smacking!

for a start, as has been said repeatedly - proper CC is not about not getting up in the middle of the night for your child, or about leaving them to cry endlessly on their own.

Nobody is saying on this thread that CC is about leaving their child to their own devices all night. I think the anecdotes show that sleeping through (at an appropriate age) can be the happy consquence of helping your child to learn how to fall back to sleep without external influences.

So, i think making a connection to something that is violent and abusive to children is just taking it way too far.

i do agree with your description of how you allowed your baby to settle over a period of time. IMO CC and being intuitive with your child's needs and abilities are not mutually exclusive. i have provided a space for my dd to grizzle, fuss, let off steam and communicate her desire for the dummy etc whilst returning repeatedly to reassure her.

now when she wakes in the night, i know she needs me and respond immediately. before that, she just needed me to resettle her.

I never did any kind of sleep training with DD and she and I have never been sleep-deprived either...

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