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Any child psychologists out there? What do you think (professionally) about controlled crying?

1000 replies

Neenztwinz · 28/11/2008 19:24

I have used CC, I think it is a very quick and effective way of dealing with sleep problems, but I was wondering if there was any research done into its long-term effects. My SIL is a child psychologist and she is dead against CC, so I wonder whether it is because of research she may have seen. I don't want to ask her about it because our babies are only 7 weeks different in age and discussions such as these are just not worth the hassle IYKWIM.

OP posts:
ShowOfHands · 29/11/2008 10:36

Similarly, I am not a child psychologist but have some little knowledge of development and sleep. As far as possible I try to not let anything I have read interfere with my natural parenting instinct except for in matters of safety and necessity. I hope that I parent in the same way I conduct other areas of my life, namely with respect and patience.

I could never condone cc or cio for my own child and would not feel qualified to comment on anybody else's decision to sleep train any further than I believe that whatever route you follow, it should be pursued safely and consistently.

I can comment only on the child I have been given and the way in which I personally see sleep. I agree wholeheartedly with mamadoc about the developmental nature of sleep. I do not believe that you can train a child to sleep any more than you can train them to walk, talk, eat or reach other developmental milestones. Certainly I acknowledge the need and necessity for guiding them in certain directions but I know for me that her natural circadian rhythms and appropriate zeitgebers such as light in particular will guide her to sleep at the times she needs to. My understanding from research and own instinct is that around the time a child becomes more cognizant of its own body and ability to choose to sleep, it will reach that developmental milestone. At the same time, we reach a stage in our relationship where she is able to communicate effectively her needs. So where in her younger days her only communication was through crying, when she is old enough to self settle she is also able to tell me if any of her needs remain unmet.

As a baby and small child, those plaintive wails or cries were her voice. That was the way she told me her needs and in the same way I would not ignore an adult I loved when they requested my help, it was my job to respond to dd. At no point would it ever have been appropriate for me to allow her to believe that there are conditions attached to my response to her. I could not have allowed her to think that one day I would not respond to her if it was in my powers to do so.

So, we demand-fed, co-slept and dd made the rules. Until she started eating at 7 months, I accepted that her tiny tummy and a milk diet meant she would need to feed often throughout the night. I instinctively knew that after months cuddled in my tummy and listening to my body, she needed to remain close to me and make her own moves to explore her new environment. She found her own way. She sleeps that big chunk at night because that's the way humans function most effectively when guided by light/social interaction/hormones. At around 16 months, she started to self-settle the majority of the time (as research suggested she would).

I absolutely refute with my grand case study of one that co-sleeping eschewers of cio/cc have miserable or whingy children. My dd is the happiest, brightest, well-rested child. I wouldn't dare to presume that luck or genetics aren't involved but I know categorically that the way we did things was the only way for us.

StarlightMcKenzie · 29/11/2008 10:48

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gagarin · 29/11/2008 11:07

"We can't put our cultural brainwashing onto them in such a forceful way"

But starlight - your views on cultural over-riding of instinct can be challenged using exactly the same argument!

Your cultural norms (along the lines of attachment parenting?) may well be over-riding other instincts that you and your dcs have - for example dcs needing stucture and boundaries to feel safe; or dcs being able to relax knowing "Mum's in charge" etc etc.

StarlightMcKenzie · 29/11/2008 11:18

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OonaghBhuna · 29/11/2008 11:23

For me its very basic. If you are a parent who responds to every need every cry during the daytime and then do CC at night surely this can only be confusing to a child? What does the baby eventually learn?
There are other ways.

piscesmoon · 29/11/2008 12:30

'Hence there's no right or wrong answer to how to bring your child up, but the measure of success is probably the happiness, health and energy level evident within your own family. If any of these seem to be off kilter, then it makes sense to try alternative approaches until the situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

I don't think extreme positions are very helpful, nor do I think there is any virtue to buying opinionated baby books promoting inflexible positions towards child rearing. Parents need to be encouraged to try different things until they find the confidence to do what works for them. We all have the answers within us, but sometimes it just takes a bit of time to find them. '

I think this is a very sensible approach. You should remain true to yourself and do what suits you. If you experienced poor parenting yourself, it makes sense to read about it, but as a general thing I think all these theories do more harm than good! I have a sort of middle way, attachment parenting doesn't suit me but neither does controlled crying. I don't expect what suits me to suit others.

Neenztwinz · 29/11/2008 13:40

Nah, Starlight, I don't accept that I want to cotrol my kids, just their sleep! My mum is not a controlling person, she brought me up to be assertive, independent and confident and that is exactly what I want for my kids. I know mums who won't let their babies out of their sight, I'm not one of them, I love it when someone takes them for a few hours. In fact, I think trying to make them less dependent on me to get to sleep is less controlling cos they don't need me.

Showofhands, my SIL doesn't co-sleep, her DS sleeps in a crib (after falling asleep in her arms or on her DH's cehst). Her baby is whingy and overtired cos he can;t settle himslef for naps. I don't think babies who co-sleep are whingy and miserable, I think it is a lovely and very nurturing, just not for me long-term as I get very little sleep doing it.

OP posts:
flightattendant5 · 29/11/2008 13:48

Oh my gosh

Babies of 6 months 'having you on'

wanting to be near you - fuck, that's bad that a baby wants to be near its mother

Bedtime is bedtime, honestly sorry but what a crock of sh*t.

I can't believe people can be this ignorant.

Pitchounette · 29/11/2008 14:01

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Pitchounette · 29/11/2008 14:02

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katch · 29/11/2008 14:36

What flightattendant5 said.

wonderstuff · 29/11/2008 14:48

ronshar, I didn't teach my dd to crawl! She did it all by herself, same with eating and drinking, we have no fixed bedtime, sometime between 6.30 and 9 she gets tired and wants to sleep, we co-sleep because I didn't want to do cc or cio and it is the only way I can get enough sleep because if she sleeps for 4 hours straight its great. She is the happiest, brightest child, she rarely cries, is confident, inquisitive and a delight. So you are wrong, fixed bedtimes not essential for babies, probably essential for some mummies. In fact I feel that the children I know who are clingy and have attachment issues have parents who cc. Although I also know happy babies whose parents did cc. I guess that shows that there are a range of parenting styles and it is very difficult to know exactly what effect one aspect of parenting has.

I am not a child psyc, but I think that not having set routine and accepting a child doesn't need to sleep 12 hours straight a night takes a degree of confidence. It is really hard to know what to do and it took me a while to work out when dd was tired or hungry or uncomfortable or just bored. Now she is 12mo it is so much easier to understand her. We will have set bedtimes one day, disipline is important, but not until she understands whats going on

ellasmum1 · 29/11/2008 14:53

neentz just wanted to add my support for your method of parenting, i did cc with dd to get a routine (for my sanity) at 3 months. it took 3 nights and she turned into a MUCH happier, contented baby. Bedtimes were a joy and she has always slept fantastically. She is now nearly six. I bonded with her and our relationship improved tremendously once she was going down well at night, because I was having that bit of time to myself in the evening.
Other people also commented frequently about how well she went to sleep at night.And also about how she was such a happy smiley baby. In all I am an extremely affectionate, loving mum. Those babies in a romanian orphanage are neglected all day and night-and hardly receive any cuddles etc It is a ridiculous comparison IMO.

ellasmum1 · 29/11/2008 14:56

Oh and she is not and never has been clingy, EVER. And is very confident, mature and independent.

skidoodle · 29/11/2008 14:59

I really think that the people who have said or implied that parents who use controlled crying are torturing their children need to get a grip.

To belittle actual torture and abuse of children by likening it to a parenting method of which you approve is quite appalling.

One could just as well argue that since sleep deprivation is a recognised form of torture, that parents who insist on running in and disturbing their children every time they make a noise, and who allow babies to become chronically overtired by letting them "choose" when they will sleep even if they are manifestly getting less sleep than they need, are torturers.

I think it takes a real asshole to make out that the way other people parent their children is cruel when there is no reason to think that other than their own prejudices (simplistic rubbish about people living in caves and tedious whines about "western" lifestyles, and how much better off we'd all be if the last 10,000 years hadn't happened, notwithstanding.)

Interesting that the only people here with any kind of significant professional knowledge of the area, that isn't in some kind of non-scientific mumbo-jumbo, are some of the most measured in their responses.

Neenz I totally disagree with you about bedtimes, but I think you're being admirably calm under some really unpleasant fire. Your twins are very lucky to have you, you sound an ace mother.

barnsleybelle · 29/11/2008 15:18

Very interesting that yet again noone has been able to provide the scientific proof that CC causes children to "give up". I used CC for both my children who are well adjusted, loving and intensly close to both dh and i and each other. They have both formed loving relationships with other family members and friends.

After 3 days of CC they then were the best little sleepers you could imagine and consequently rarely got overtired or had tantrums and whiney episodes we all see so much of.

I do accept it's not for everyone but i get sick of the unproven theory that it "breaks trust"... Total codswollap.

OonaghBhuna · 29/11/2008 15:24

Do we really need scientific proof? As I have said before I could never leave my children to cry at night. Why do people not chose the more humane ways of getting children to sleep?

skidoodle · 29/11/2008 15:33

humane?

There we in again. You don't like it so therefore it is inhumane?

Yes of course you need scientific proof before claiming that something parents have been doing for generations is cruel and permanently damaging.

Or at least you do if you have a serious case to make and aren't just getting your jollies by making out that you are so wonderful compared to all the bad neglectful parents who don't do things your way.

StarlightMcKenzie · 29/11/2008 15:35

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barnsleybelle · 29/11/2008 15:40

Regarding the overtired part... I see soooo many mums in various places, supermarket, play areas etc etc, with a screaming tantruming toddler/child. They give you that smile and say "he/she's tired, she's been up since 6 this morning". I think well what are you doing here then, put them to bed in the afternoon and let them sleep.

giantkatestacks · 29/11/2008 16:08

its interesting that neenz and co are being attacked - and really harshly imo - for doing what they find instinctive...are some instincts more equal than others?

I find among my friends that some people attachment parent because thats what comes naturally and some are more routine led for the same reason...

do all the people happy to have disturbed sleep past the age of one work?or is that something that is objected to as well as another sign of a decadent western-putting adults-first lifestyle?

juuule · 29/11/2008 16:13

Is anybody happy to have disturbed sleep? I've never been happy about having disturbed sleep.

juuule · 29/11/2008 16:17

I agree that babies and toddlers can get overtired.
However, if my children are anything to go by, some only need a quite space or to be put to bed to nod off in a short time while others find it really difficult to settle themselves and if left alone get more and more agitated, eventually becoming hysterical in some cases.

giantkatestacks · 29/11/2008 16:22

juuule - yes you're right I put that badly - noone is happy about it...I suppose more willing to have disturbed sleep...as a very early poster said - its all a balance between your needs and the babys needs and everyone has to find their own level.

giantkatestacks · 29/11/2008 16:24

agree again juuule - thats why i dont like one-size-fits-all parenting...

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