7 year old ds feels sorry for himself ALLLLL the time. How can I stop it? (Long)

[mrsmaidamess]

My 7 year old is driving dh and I to distraction.

Its not just the 'Woe is me' attitude to everything. Its the fact that he will make a minimal effort with things such as bike riding, swimming lessons, football on a Saturday, and just when he starts to show improvement he will stop trying. Its almost as if he thinks he's done enough, and doesn't want to get it 100% right.

When we try to talk to him about how he could do that little bit extra, like practice on his bike again, the 'I'm rubbish, I can't do it, no one likes me, they think I'm rubbish at school, my handwritings messy etc etc' stream of conciousness about how BAD his life is in EVERY way comes tumbling out and its impossible to get any sense out of him or to get him to listen.

Then, just when he's in the midst of the glums, he'll pipe up with 'Who got voted off X factor last Week?' To which dh and I reply, Heh? You were suicidal 2 minutes ago, now youre onto this instead.

His swimming teacher spoke to me tonight and said he had never tried to teach a boy who was so cautious about trying new things and getting better at them. After almost 20 lessons, he's made the progress we would have expected after 5.

There's much talking and negotiating from my ds with the (very young) teacher about what he will and won't do, and there's that lack of drive, or wanting to succeed that we find so frustrating because if he just succeeded a tiny bit, he could say I've done iT!!!

His class teacher said he finds it hard to concentrate and gets very upset if his work is not 'just so' and there is a lot of manic rubbing out.

Consequently, he doesn't finish, misses part of playtime and so the downward spiral continues because he's so sad about it.

Now I've waffled on forever, any advice, or similar experience? Is my son a manic depressive or does he just need tough love and a kick up the jacksie?

No idea I'm afraid as only have a wee baby but didn't want you to go unanswered. I would equally find this situation incredibly frustrating.

Bumping this in the hope someone with experience can help!

Hi mrsmaidamess, how exasperating for you.

I don't have a 7 yr old myself so feel free to ignore the following but I did teach that age group and my approach would be to go into full on Mary Poppins mode ie . . .

Child: "I'm rubbish, I caaaan't doooo it"

Me: Extrememly brightly "Don't silly darling, of course you can, here, sit with me, let's do it together, show me what you can do. There you go that's super - now lets see what else we can do" AND ON AND ON AND ON.

I would keep boosting his confidence but at the same time not put up with the whines - feeling sorry for himself. I would point out firmly that EVERYONE feels a bit rubbish at times but that successful people have to TRY and TRY again to get things right. Then briskly move on.

Sorry if this is stating the obvious. He is obviously a cautious and unconfident little boy (poor darling) but jolly him along - ignore the nonsense about him being rubbish, or firmly point out that if he wants friends then he'll cut the whinging.

I suspect that it will be bit of a long slow road, but JOLLY JOLLY JOLLY would be my approach.

Good luck x

My ds1 is coming up to 6 and quite similar - it's almost as if he does things wrong on purpose. Dh has quite a rebellious nature and i think he might get it from him! I'll be watching your post with interest to see if anyone can offer some useful advice. The only thing that's worked to some extent with my ds is bribes, lots of bribes...

Thanks for replies so far.

Claudia, yes we have tried the jolly jolly approach, and it works for so long until perhaps he has a wobble on the bike and then CRASH its all doom and gloom again, with him refusing to get back on again.

We have lectured him time and again about how the sportsmen he admires weren't born brilliant, they had to work and work and practice until they got it right.

Its all water off a ducks back to him.

Aggghh!

We have had some similar experiences with DS, now 6. If he is not naturally good at something (eg: football, handwriting) he is reluctant to try. He also got into a bit of a negative rut about school last half term - it was almost becoming a habit to say 'I hate school, got no friends, everyone thinks I'm weird' etc.

I suppose the difference with us is that there are lots of things he is positive about and good at, but frankly this doesn't help him with the things he doesn't like. He can't apply the learning from one to the other, IYSWIM.

We've done 'jollying along', we've tried treating it as a behaviour issue with stickers given for trying things, being happy, and so on. I think what works best is largely ignoring the miserable, sulky face and giving lots of attention and praise/rewards for the behaviour you like.

I know this is frustrating for you. Could you maybe go on a campaign of doing things you know he can do, or nearly do, so you can give him lots of praise and attention for little successes. Learning to ride a bike is pretty tricky and frustrating for all children until they can do it.

Oh, and a tip for riding the bike - take the pedals off and let him just scoot up and down on it for a few days, and get him to practice keeping his feet up for a bit longer each time (start with one second, work up to three, five, etc).

This helps them get the feel of balance on the bike, and when you put the pedals back on they can just do it.

I've seen this done successfully with four kids in our road now. It takes anything from a couple of hours to a couple of weeks. If you put the pedals back on and they don't crack it straight away, just take them off again.

My DS had lost his confidence on the bike a bit after a good start, and this really sorted him out.

This is more from your DS's point of view. I remember being a sulky child like this when it was something I either didn't want to do or wasn't good at. Most of the time I was angry with myself for not being able to do it, but most times I genuinely did NOT want to do the thing that I felt everyone was pushing me to do. When my parents said 'have another go' I would...feeling that I would let them down if I didn't, but then getting very frustrated that I couldn't, and feel like I was letting them down anyway. This might be what your son is feeling.

Instead of encouragement, maybe try backing off for awhile. Whatever he wants to do - let him. There must be one or two things that he genuinely loves - for me it was reading and quizzes. I wasn't sporty, but was encouraged to try and do it, which made me retreat further from it. Just let him work out what it is he really loves, then encourage and help him with that. Hope this helps!!

I'm not sure I get this tbh.

Why does he need to be pushed to do a little bit better- why can't you just leave him alone to do what he wants to do. Why does he need to practice his bike more to be better - isn;t riding a bike just supposed to be fun. And swimming too.

I think you need to just lay off him - leave him alone and stop nagging him 'to do a bit better' which would surely get on anyone's tits, let alone a 7yo boys.

And then when he brightens a bit and asks a question about something he is enjoying, you knock him back down with a completely negative response.

I imagine that his negativity is inherited!

have you read 'how to talk to kids so they'll listen and listen so they'll talk?' some interesting approaches, not of the jolly jolly kind. (in fact the 'don't be silly' is rather frowned upon).

Soapbox and henrys7thwife, I agree that pushing him may is not likely to be the answer, and that nagging a child is not going to get the results you want ie a happy child, but I do think that being positive and cheerful around children is rather catching. I agree that it's important to give children space to develop at their own speed but surely some encouragement (NOT nagging) is to be um . . . encouraged?

And for children to be spouting a very negative view of themselves - i'm rubbish, no friends etc is worth challenging?

I do agree Claudia, but the OP sounds as if the experience is far from cheery and positive.

'Why don't you do a bit extra bike riding' quite rightly taken by her DS as meaning 'you need to work harder at bike riding'

'after 20 lessons he's made the progress we would have expected after 5'

'Heh? you were suicidal 2 mins ago, now you're into this instead'!!!!!!

'He makes a minimal effort with things'

I mean, these aren't the words of a parent who thinks positively are they?

Claudia, I'm just saying from my own experience and my point of view - as a child I was very stubborn - if I got it in my head I had no friends (when really I knew that I did) then that was it, no amount of cajoling or contradicting would change it.

I am not saying don't be positive around your children, but don't push him into areas he doesn't enjoy - that is going to make him dig his heels in even more. Also - not saying this is your DS mrsmaid, but some children will carry on if you keep contradicting them. I was merely suggesting a different tack to see if that brings something different.

Claudia, I'm just saying from my own experience and my point of view - as a child I was very stubborn - if I got it in my head I had no friends (when really I knew that I did) then that was it, no amount of cajoling or contradicting would change it.

I am not saying don't be positive around your children, but don't push him into areas he doesn't enjoy - that is going to make him dig his heels in even more. Also - not saying this is your DS mrsmaid, but some children will carry on if you keep contradicting them. I was merely suggesting a different tack to see if that brings something different.

misseliza :bike tip, will deff try that. DS is 6 also with a very much can't do it attitude (oh woe is me!). But he copes much better with a little less attention now and again, for those testing times.. (slovenly parents ha), brings out his independent streak we have found.

Agree with soapbox. You sound like you are falling into the trap of nagging and presurising him instead of projecting the fact that you think he's a fabster and encouraging him to have fun.

He's clearly a perfectionist. It's not unusual for perfectionists to tip over into refusing to learn anything new because they won't be able to do it perfectly first time around.

I think you have to acknowledge that this is a real fear and not try to belittle it. Just confronting him and pushing him won't help.

Maybe a bit of empathy would go a long way - acknowledging that he feels anxious about doing something that isn't superb while gently reminding him that even had to LEARN how to do X, Y or Z and learning involves making mistakes. Perhaps look up the life story of someone he admires and find some examples of their juvenilia so you can actually show him that there are some spelling mistakes or whatever.

Tell him about learning to drive - did you or dh have to take your test three times or something? Or any other examples?

Oh, Soapy's right, btw, riding your bike and swimming are supposed to be fun, not some sort of exercise in proving you are worthy of your parents' love.

I feel incredibly sorry for your ds, and I think he needs some love rather than tough love. You sound incredibly negative about him.
As his parents you should be congratulating his every achievement, however small. whereas it sounds like every time he does anything it's not good enough for you, which means he doesn't bother trying because he will never be able to please you.

The negotiating is probably his attempt to understand correctly, and he still bothers doing that with his teacher because he thinks he can still impress her - if he's given up negotiating and discussing expectations with you he's probably already realised he can't impress you.

You and your dh need to take a long hard look at your parenting. Your love for your son should be unconditional, and more importantly you should stress to him that it is unconditional.

Are you a perfectionist yourself? Do you feel you had to be good at stuff to make people/your parents love you? And if so, do you really want to perpetuate that cycle?

I would recommend this book which will help you to examine how you have made this little boy into the unconfident child he is (because lets face it, a 7 year olds problems are down to his parents) and how you can help him.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I really do believe you are (however inadvertently) storing up real issues for your sons future, and you need to address them now.

Claudia - actually with children who have very low self confidence it's not best to challenge them - if you say "oh you do have friends" they hear that as criticism of them moaning, and eventually give up complaining (can anyone tell I'm speaking from bitter experience)
It's actually better to acknowledge that they have these feelings, ask them to give their reasons for them, and then provide positive, rational arguments against their specific reasons. It's a subtle difference, but a very important one.

I agree with Prufrock, and Aitch.

My DS1 can be a bit like this. In response I don't push him, I lay off, and I've been working on his self-esteem in other ways (doing things we both enjoy together, working on speaking to him positively and thinking about him positively), and things have improved a bit.

I don't know the book Prufrock is recommending, but 'how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk' is great.

My DS1 (7) has a lot of similiarities to yours.

He is incredibly sensitive and fundamentally hates all sports, which he thinks he is rubbish at. He has made a minimum attempt at bike riding and doesn't have swimming lessons at the moment, though is happy in the water.

If you expose him to things then he bounces them straight back at you - anything like language, behaviour etc.. But on the upside if you are positive then you get positive feedback.

He goes into this silly sulks with silly faces, I'm dumb, have no friends etc.. He just started at new school (yr 3) in September and it has been very hard work.

What we do?

Firstly - I am increasingly trying to parent the child I have not the child I want. That is an important difference!

Secondly - he loves his nintendo ds/computer etc.. more than a lot of posters would think is good. However, he is good at it and it gives him self esteem and when his friends come over he is better than them! I give him praise for coming off it when I ask.

Thirdly - I am trying to be more positive abouot his behaviour. I realised a while ago that I was desperate for him not to have a miserable time at school like I did, so was going on about it and he was picking up on it and falling into the sterotype that I was setting up.

Fourthly - I have really eased up on him and he doesn't have to be that brilliant to get lots of positive praise. Yesterday he got praise for:

• trying judo club for the first time, good forward roles at judo club etc..
• getting dressed nicely for school
• offering his friend, who came over from school, lots of things to do like a good host
• playing with said friend for an hour before going on ninetendo
• not hitting his little brother back when little brother hit him first

And as I do it there is lots of I liked it when you did that because...

Also lots of I didnt like it when you did that because it made me feel sad/annoyed etc.. OR how did you think X felt when you hit him

Fifthly
We do some simple NLP techniques with him to make him feel better about himself. That is done through a kiniesologist that he has seen on an off over the last three years.

Hope that helps and good luck - I have been there and no doubt will be there in the future.

Wow. lots orf replies! And some more harsh than others!

Unless you are a fly on the wall in our house, I cannot express online exactly how we parent our son. But we are FAR from negative.

We are frustrated that a lovely, capable, sometimes sunny, sometims grumpy , perfectly normal boy that could achieve happiness seems to sabotage himself.

I know that soapbox some of you have probably got this image of me now as some hard nosed driven parent, cracking the whip. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have tried backing off, we have tried bribes, we have tried tiny steps. And when I say 'achieve' I don't mean 'be the best', I mean, be happy with what he is doing.

And I feel we do love him unconditionally...I just want him to be happy for himself and I don't think he is.

So thanks for the advice...and the lectures! I guess we have some more thinking to do.

Have now re read all posts and thought...yes perhaps there is some truth in what the 'harsher' posters have said.
I'll keep you posted.

I'm interested to read read this as DS is shaping up to be a perfectionist who can be prone to spouting "I'm rubbish at everything", he's 5. My method is resounding cheerfulness at most times, large amounts of praise for the things he does and very gently helping him to try to cope when he can't get things just as he wants them eg yesterday he was trying to draw some straight lines on a page and I heard "gggrrrrrr" coming from the kitchen. Went to investigate and he was cross as his line was wonky and he wanted knew paper to start again. I said it was fine, things to do wrong sometimes and maybe instead of starting again we could see together if we could put it right instead.

He has just this minute come in to see me, was doing colouring in a proper colouring book and has come to ask for some paper as he wants to make his own colouring book. I've given him some and we've stapled the side so he is pleased with that. I've also told him that it is a lovely thing to want to make and possibly quite hard to get just as he wants to. Asked him what he will do if one of the drawings doesn't go quite to plan. He had a think and has decided he will cross it out and start again. I said that was a good solution and asked him how that will make him feel (expecting him to say cross and grumpy as I know it would usually make him). He had a think and has said "actually, quite grown up I think" so I'm hoping that by having dealt with a potential issue in advance I will have given him a way to cope with it, to continue learning that it is OK to make mistakes but still to feel good about himself. Don't know if it will work, but fingers crossed.

Having a DD who has dyspraxia and has to try incredibly hard at things that most other children find easy and who is happy if things look pretty much OK, it has been a shock to the system to have a little perfectionist and I have to parent them in two completely different ways.

I do agree with the others about your expectations of him and the language you use, I think you need to re-examine the expectations you are putting on him. He will learn to swim and it is so important to let him do it in his own time and way or you will put him off for life. DS has just learned and it has taken 3.5 terms of lessons to get there but I'm really pleased for him that he has as I know he'll love it when we go on holiday in April and will able to do it and he's been working towards doing it for himself rather than for us which I think it important.

Another tip for the bike riding that I read on here recently and has worked for DS and his friend. When they are at the stage when they can pretty much ride and it is a matter of confidence, find a rucksack with a handle and put that on their backs and hold the handle. This apparently helps them more than holding the saddle as you correct their balance if you are doing this and by using the bag they do it themselves. And easier to let go without them realising !

Thanks chocolate...I think we have been guilty of wanting him to do things 'for us' rather than making the journey to achieving them fun.