2 year old lining up toys - should I be worried?

[Anotherbook]

Ds just turned 2 (in the last week) has in the last couple of weeks taken to lining up toys.We went for a picnic yesterday with a bag of toys and he got all the balls and lined them up side by side.He has also been doing this with his bob the builder vehicles and his play animals on his bedroom window shelf (so they look out of the window) and they have to be exactly level or he has a mini tantrum.He has also started to tidy his toys into boxes (thrown in mostly) sometimes.
He does play normally with the toys as well although compared to my older dd doesn't really play with toy kitchen/doll in imaginative play.
What I am worried about is ASD as his speech is also not that great for his age.He does point,wave and use some words (have counted up to 70)but it is variable and not as well as the children at his toddler group.
I did take him to the GP to ask about his speech a couple of months ago (he was saying less then) but she said as he was communicating well non verbally to wait and see.He is due for his 2 year HV assessment so I am going to ask for speech therapy referral (in case his progress doesn't continue) but wondered if I should flag up the recent lining up of his toys too.

My Ds1 was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum (unsure of where he falls on it) at the age of two years nine months. There were several factors involved in this decision.
Perhaps the main one at the time, the one that leapt to my attention at least, was the fact that whilst he was verbal, he wasn't using his words for commmunication. He could repeat back word for word a story he'd heard, but could not ask for a drink, either verbally or non verbally. He was very late (when compared with typically developing children) in being able to say "mummy" and "daddy" and I actually spent months teaching him it. He was excellent at putting together jigsaws, recognising numbers and colours, but could not understand a simple instruction like "get your coat".
If we went somewhere strange or saw someone new then he would not look at me or DH for reassurance or an explanation. He would either ignore the person, not hiding from them, just not acknowledging them, or he would clamber onto their lap and start playing with their hair and face. Again he wouldn't check my reaction to things.
He wouldn't point things out to me. He was happy, but very much content to do things on his own terms.
At the age of five, despite his communication skills improving it is still very clear that he's on the spectrum. His obsessions, primarily with numbers, remain very strong (he's started numbering the floors in our house and referring to "go down a number one" to say he wants to go to the living room. He can ask for things now and can label things but it took a lot of hard work to get him to this point. He has just started asking simple questions "what's that?". "where are my?", we still haven't reached the embarrassing stage of "why is that man so fat?" for example.
He loves games like Peekaboo , Round and Round the Garden and Hiding Under a Blanket. His idea of Hide and Seek is to hide then as soon as the other person reaches the end of the counting he leaps out and shouts "Ready or Not", the idea that the point is to remain hidden doesn't occur to him yet.
He gets very very distressed over simple things changing, something like a wrong bowl being used, or his daddy arriving early from work can send him into screaming tears. Ironically because he is so closely bound by his rules and regulations and follows the same pattersn/does the same things when we go out we don't have a danger with him running off. But if he did get lost he would not tell someone that he'd been shopping with mummy, he'd say something like "T have yellow one and J have pink one", or "we go a number twenty". That's if he decided to speak at all. It took months and months of teaching him to say his name and his age in reply to specific questions.
Developmentally he is, in many respects, more like a two year old than a five year old. He thrives on repetition for a start. We use Makaton to help with his understanding and also understand that if his day is familiar and well structured then he functions a lot better (in school he always wants to take down the planning cards at the end of each activity to keep track of things).
What stood out for us was not the things he was doing (he did line things up and still does, though this is not his major obession), but rather the things he wasn't doing. He needed to be taught (and still does to a large extent) that interaction and language with other people was for his benefit, that people could be useful for things other than manipulating them physically (he still uses my fingers to point to things sometimes).

Bullet thankyou for your reply.Your ds1 sounds lovely - I like his hide and seek.

There are some things I wonder about ds' use of language in respect to communicating his needs.He tends to verbalise a need using a sound with pointing rather than the use of a word that he knows such as fruit,cracker,cup.I feel I am having to get him to say the word rather than it just coming naturally.I have resorted to saying say cup before giving it to him.His colour recognition doesn't seem very good he seems to say most things are green if asked but I am sure I heard him say yesterday 'There's mummy's blue coat'
!I suppose it is the same with his imaginary play I feel I am demonstrating things such as lets make these cars crash,oh no there's an accident etc...

I will what I have described here to the HV as it sounds like it may be relevant.

his understanding to words werent there he didnt really understand meanings of words so there fore wasnt using speech but would whine or take me to what he wanted or would try to do everything himself

he was referred im not sure why but i believe it was because if a child is not talking or does not have set amount of words by 2 early intervention was used my gp is really good

he was monitored for a yr when it bacame apparant how he was using words and his actions became more apparant that it was more than just speech delay likes to spend alot of time on computer learning things his mind needed to be stimulated by this and not toys as such

he played alongside but not with other children and became very intravert and in need of routine at pre school and if routing changed hewas lost

we had the challange of me verbalising everything i was doing in my day

mummys making bubblaboy a drink in his green cup

mummys putting oven on to cook dinner etc everything i was doing so he could understand words to actions his speech came on leaps in just a few weeks

also his colour recognition and shapes and numbers he was aware of from 2 and nothing else

we go to a group called snap special needds and parents who set up lots of courses that teach children in a different way social interaction and shared play we do music therapy that is great as he doesnt talk away from the home really and this gives each child opportunity to speak up and play and he has now started answering when it comes to his turn and has became so much more confident and less frustrated

as for toddler groups my ds was off all the time playing and is same in pre school but its his lack of awareness to those around him he is just happy to play and not initiate any play with someone else but with his therapies he has become more confidant and is aware that someone else is there and to share play

its been slow progress but in last 6 months his speech has improved heaps he has now aquired the i want instead of bubbla wants still doesnt understand what have you done where have you been or how old are you questions like this are normally memorised and can randomly say anything sometimes gets it right does know what is your name now

but doesnt understand dangers and explanations need to be really short such as if you go in the road you will get ill as he knows ill isnt nice but has no idea of what being hit by a car and getting hurt means its too much

but gradually understanding of words has improved and he is using them more in his speech

i really wouldn't wait or worry about appearing to be a worrying mum as they can see from early age by setting simple tasks and how the child approaches this in actions

the sooner you find out you can put your mind to rest

Bubblagirl,

Thankyou for this.It is apparent from all the different ASD and NT children's symptoms that it really is difficult to know yourself.

I didn't think that there would be any real intervention if a diagnosis was made so it is useful to know that there is a positive to a diagnosis if it comes to this.

too many asd traits and all children act different same as nt children they all act different but the only thing you can ever count on is mothers intuition i just knew with my ds and set out to get help and we got it

i would have preferred for no dx but we got one and he is coming along great now as we have people who are helping us and tellimng me what i can do at home

the younger they are they can be taught things that they need to know alot is said for early dx and although we dont get alot of help at mo from proffessionals the group we go to gives me alot of support and other parents there and also the therapies that are set up for them

i have seen him come on leaps through all this and feel better than just sitting back wandering as i know and im actively helping him as much as i can

but its also not just the help its understanding how there minds work to stop expectations of what they should or how they should be doing something it opens your eyes and you get to see a world two ways and its amazing to connect on my ds level now to understand why he does certain things and thats helps also

The insight into your toddler's mind if a diagnosis is made would help.Why he is so insistent on lining up in his own set way.Sometimes I look and think he is just like all other toddlers but there is a insistence on certain things done in certain ways that is becoming more apparent.Not sure if this is just 2 year toddler hard work or ASD.I know my dd was not like this but he has been harder work from the word go .

He has a train set of jigsaws and today I noticed he has started doing them in the same order - when i tried to do the blue one before the red one he had a tantrum..

to much indicates something more but you need to go with list of what you have noticed and just ask to be referred

as it took a yr from being referred to get a dx as was observed but he didnt display any lining up or obsessive behaviour

but alot about his behaviour made me feel something wasnt right his fixation with numbers and letters his ability to see something once and do the task led me to believe this wasnt normal toddler behaviour

just ask for a referral if all comes back ok then great if not then you know where you are and will get all the help you need early on

Thanks bubblagirl.

I feel happier in what to do now.

We have just been to the shop and I saw him look behind give the child behind him in the queue a fantastic smile/grin.He does this sometimes when we walk along at adults as I have seen adults smile back.He is not so keen on other toddlers though.

He is very affectionate and sometimes calls mamma and then just gives me a hug and a kiss.He is lovely whatever transpires

thats it my ds is loving calls me mamma and says mamma i wug you

he loves being with me is a calm mannered boy and very easy going only out of his comfort zone does he become hard work

but it hasnt changed the way i think about him he is still an amazing little boy who is loving and loves to be loved he just has challanges ahead but he will get there

i just do not compare anymore i just rejoice every hurdle he jumps and i understand him more so my expectations have gone i allow him to take the lead instead of me thinking he should be doing this , this and this by now

hope you are ok and dont worry yourself too much he sounds simply adoreable

My dd is 9 and does this.........

It's called a schema www.surestart.gov.uk/_doc/P0000209.pdf
www.visionwebsites.co.uk/Contents/Text/Index.asp?SiteId=468&SiteExtra=17910327&TopNavId=642&NavSideI d=8919 and are normal developmental behaviour for under threes

Mrz that is really interesting.
It does seem to have come on quite suddenly with the interest in jigsaws and putting things in boxes.A month ago he wasn't lining anything up!

He isn't doing so much throwing and kicking balls at the moment which he has always loved and is really good at.

It is interesting to look at it from the 'normal development' point of view.

I am still worrying and looking at everything he does and comparing!- not a good thing in the long term but OK I suppose for the next week until I see the health visitor.

I wouldn't worry too much (get a second opinion from HV or doctor to put your mind at rest) but as long as it isn't coupled with other changes in behaviour such as reluctance to communicate make eye contact or avoidance of physical contact I would suggest it is just a "phase" in his development.

just to add my ds has great eye contact although have noticed when he talks he doesnt look at you apart from that he has fantastic eye contact

get it checked for to long i heard dont worry biys are slow blah blah blah and my ds had dx of asd not saying your ds will but you cant be too sure

only the professionals know as alot of children display asd traits without having it alot of asd dx are different to see my ds you would not know there is anything wrong at all

always best to seek proffessional help then you can stop worrying no one else can diagnose your dc but if you have even a small cause for concern you should ask someone who will know

Hope it is just a phase but will ask HV.His imaginary play as far as playing with his cooker, any dolls isn't as good as his peers and his use of words is patchy although he does seem to be improving after a slow start compared to his playgroup friends.

Think I do need speech therapy referral for him just in case this doesn't improve and to identify if there is something I am missing.

Will ask about paed. referral after she has observed him and I have discussed what I have noted.

Haven't noticed any other changes in his behaviour except more tantrums about minor things during the day but he has just turned 2 so I'd say this is normal.

I agree with bubblagirl get it checked out but please don't lose sleep over what may turn out to be a normal stage in his development

My brother did this all the time. He used to put them in colour order and size order. He is now 21 and perfectly normal!!

You must be reading my mind.Have been losing sleep worrying

Hi I'm new on here, my son is 3 1/2 and has been at playgroup since he was 2 and loves it. They have recently raised concerns about his 'obsessive ' behaviour with his toy cars. He lines them up, knows all there makes and models and they say thats all he plays with at playgroup. He does this home but will play with other toys and does not do this with other toys, only cars. He does get upset if they are moved when playing with but that's usually because his little brother who is 2 gets in the way. They want him assed before he start primary schoold for things like autism .

Hi my son is 3 year old.he says a lot of single ,two and 3 word sentences.tge sentences he use are the way the mother talks to him but in correct place.notheard him framing his own sentences.at hisplay school his very social gives good eye contact to the teacher.but he dosent sit and attend to adult lead activities for more then 5 minutes he can sit for long with the activity of his choice.he mostly plays with cars and trains in the setting..he goes play role and pretend play explorer's all toys.he becomes very active after his lunch break.he waves hi and bye .at home he can follow a lot of simple instructions.he can understand when mom is happy and angry. I'm a lot worried because the pedestrian has put him on the autism spectrum...plz give me some suggestions kn very stressed...thanks a tone