2 year old lining up toys - should I be worried?

[Anotherbook]

Ds just turned 2 (in the last week) has in the last couple of weeks taken to lining up toys.We went for a picnic yesterday with a bag of toys and he got all the balls and lined them up side by side.He has also been doing this with his bob the builder vehicles and his play animals on his bedroom window shelf (so they look out of the window) and they have to be exactly level or he has a mini tantrum.He has also started to tidy his toys into boxes (thrown in mostly) sometimes.
He does play normally with the toys as well although compared to my older dd doesn't really play with toy kitchen/doll in imaginative play.
What I am worried about is ASD as his speech is also not that great for his age.He does point,wave and use some words (have counted up to 70)but it is variable and not as well as the children at his toddler group.
I did take him to the GP to ask about his speech a couple of months ago (he was saying less then) but she said as he was communicating well non verbally to wait and see.He is due for his 2 year HV assessment so I am going to ask for speech therapy referral (in case his progress doesn't continue) but wondered if I should flag up the recent lining up of his toys too.

My 2 year old DS does the lining-up-of-toys too. How funny that so many boys do it - I'd never worried about it as I assumed it was genetic from DH, but I also assumed it was unusual. DH still does it, and will start lining up DS's toys when DS has popped out to get more toys... DH even puts all our shopping in perfect tessellation on the belt at Sainsbugs (DH is not autistic, he's a designer. Which does affect his social skills and ability to cope with things not being perfectly lined up, but is nothing to do with autism...)

My cousin is autistic and didn't line up his toys when young, and hit all developmental markers for speech in terms of number of words.

So there's a totally unscientific sample of two, don't know if that helps...

I tried the putting his trains in a circle to show him.He was not impressed and put them back in a row and then clapped himself.It is only these specific things (balls,trains,cars) he is lining up although he is also not happy at the moment when his biscuit breaks (he eats well though) or his jigsaw is not in one piece which all seems a similar thing.

cyberseraphim I like your example of ds knowing all the breeds of cats and dogs.It made me .My ds does repeat and say words though while we read books.He really likes nursery rhyme books at the moment and is getting quite good at some of the actions.

Ds is also really into putting (throwing) his toys into his boxes when asked at the moment which seemed to start at the same time.I have been encouraging him to tidy up though!

I know no one can diagnose on the internet but it is helpful to hear your own experiences.

He may just be displaying organised male characteristics.Designer?

His experienced nanny who looks after him 2 days a week (and also looked after dd) thinks he is perfectly normal and is just himself and I should stop comparing but I am aware most later diagnosed children have been 'missed' at some point because of the spectrum width.I have no experience of boys though being from a family of girls and with only dd so far to compare to.

Anotherbook, from reading all your posts, I think you can probably relax a little as there sounds to be lots of positives with your ds. However, this is going purely on your posts as I clearly haven't met your child, I'm no expert and you obviously have some concerns so what I'd do in your position (and have found this really useful with ds1) is keep some notes of his behaviour, language development etc and of any situations which you'd consider unusual. Keep doing this for a couple of months and if things haven't changed or have worsened in this time, go to your GP and ask for a referral to SALT or your developmental pediatrician.
You might find that next month, he's given up lining things up and is on to something completely new. I was stressing last week about DS1 counting to ten constantly (he's just learned to do it), this week it's stopped and he's on to something else.
The main reason that ASD is so hard to diagnose at an early age is that many autistic behaviours can also be part of totally normal toddler development. I would hazard a guess that this is where your ds sits, however, if you are still concerned then please do see a professional.

That's really good advice from KT. Also keep an eye on him in social situations. What's he like in a group.
Is he due to start a nursery soon? That's usually where any problems will show up clearly. They are used to dealing with children all the time so can note differences.

thebecster, how are your dh social skills affected if you don't mind me asking.

I'm really interested in all the information and experiences you're recieving too as even though HV has said my daughter lining things up is perfectly normal - we still can't help keeping an eye on her for signs of it not being normal behaviour.

She also gets very upset if a biscuit is broken or if her foods are touching on her place - and when I recently moved all the childrens shoes to one side of the hall to be with the adult shoes (after a big clear out to make a bit more space in the hall) she got very distressed that they weren't where they should be. She's also not hugely happy if another child comes to play on something she's playing on - ie a bouncy castle or slide she will refuse to stay on and get very agitated.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack! Just interested by your experience which makes me think about my DD and like you say, it's hard to know if it's normal toddler behaviour or something to worry about.

It's complicated in a way to by having twins as it's a real contrast between her and her sister which makes it seem more obvious than it might with one child!

KT14 - yes that is good advice on keeping notes.I had been doing a word diary as I knew this was a bit delayed so this how I know approximately how many words he uses.

It does seem like it may be a phase because it began quite suddenly and is being done all the time he has a chance with these particular toys but I will keep an eye on things.Just some little niggles I have which may be over anxiety or well founded.He is at this moment tidying his books into their box and getting very frustated when they won't all go in.

I am seeing his health visitor for his 2 year assessment in a couple of weeks so will see how things go between now and then.I will report back if anything transpires then or in the future as I appreciate everyone who has replied to my concerns on this (now quite long) thread.

It is good to hear that other children line things up as well though and it isn't necessarily an autistic sign.Isuppose like all these things it isn't always the thing itself but the way it is done and how this connects with the child.

hatty - my dd is 4 and very much as you have described your dd. I found the book "The Highly Sensitive Child" very useful in understanding her behaviour.

FWIW (not sure if it will be reassuring or not) DD has put a 100 jigsaw pieces in a line on the floor covering 4 rooms. She has then found every person or animal she owns (playmobil, little people etc) and sat each one on top of said jigsaw pieces. They are waiting for the ice cream van apparently.

FWIW (not sure if it will be reassuring or not) DD has put a 100 jigsaw pieces in a line on the floor covering 4 rooms. She has then found every person or animal she owns (playmobil, little people etc) and sat each one on top of said jigsaw pieces. They are waiting for the ice cream van apparently.

at our house we have had

• lining up trains
• lining up cars
• lining up inflatable planets (don't ask)
• NUMEROUS crises over broken biscuits / breadsticks / drips of milk
• lining up gold coins in lengthy trails a la eustacia's DS.

These things have passed (although the occasional spilled milk anguish persists) BUT now DS insists that all the Thomas books on his shelf be shelved in numerical order, on pain of death; and all toy planes have to be (i) on the correct "airfield" and (ii) pointing the right way,

so it continues in another form.

and i don't think DS is in any way autistic spectrum (but perhaps a bit shy)

Eustacis that's exactly what my dd loves doing best - everything in collections, all placed in the same way. She is currently placing toy farm animals on pieces of her toy railway line with a marble positioned in front of each one.

I will definitely buy that book - thank you!

I think the thing is all kids can and do go through phases of lining up toys etc. What you are looking at is how else they play? is lining up all that is done, is it always done in same fashion is their play stilted or lacking in imagination. My son used to set up toys so that they matched the picture on the box, once that was done they were not played with in any other way. He never really lined up toys but played quite repiticiously at times. As I said before I think you as a mum know if it is a typical thing or something that seems to restrict their lives or become obsessive. My son was diagnosed on the spectrum at 2 and a half, he is now 12 and a half. I sensed from 2 that he was deveploping differently from his two brothers. We on MN cannot obviously tell you either way really for your son and the advice to keep an eye on things and jot things down is the ideal way to deal with things. You have your appointment so you are set up to discuss things with a professional, so carry on being the fab mum that you sound.

Thankyou mumtofour

those of you who say that a gp wouldn't refer a 2 yr old who lined up toys are wrong. a good gp would go with the mothers instincts, my dd was referred at 5 months old due to my concerns, unlike my son who was refered at 2yrs after 18 months of concern, it is true that early help makes a big difference, i have seen the proof.

Someone said gp wouldn't refer at 2?

Yup, wolf is right - that is tosh they do. My ds1 was diagnosed at 2 and a half - and we all know how long the assessment process is! ds2 diagnosed at 3. So early diagnosis is done - and is THE BEST! Earlier the better because early intervention really does make a world of difference!

Can I ask what intervention would be done if your child was diagnosed as ASD at a young age ?

He isn't lining up quite so much this week by the way.He knows I am not overkeen and try and distract him.If I look at him while he is doing it and say his name he shakes his head.

His imaginative play does seem driven by me at the moment although he will follow what I do and play in a similar way later such as crashing,racing or using the crane or digger with his cars/trains.He loves easy jigsaws and books also at the moment.

Just not sure..

Mine had a home visiting teacher 3 times a week, who came and worked 1:1 with them, teaching them all sorts of concepts through play. (well, I say 'play', it was more like torture!! They also went to the child development centre. Briefly went to something called Opportunity Class, which was worth trying but turned out to be quite useless Also got started on Statementing, which I blame for my grey hairs!

I think i would be happier if he was checked by a paed. as I am just looking at everything he does that could possibly be autistic and mulling over and over it.I am sometimes quite happy then worrying about possibly a little thing.I don't however like the idea of him being analysed so a bit of a contradiction really.

I did wonder that if he was diagnosed would it just be a label attached to him. The home teacher sounds great but is provision in different areas different when a diagnosis is made? And is diagnosis fairly consistent in different paeds.

Yes, provision depends on area and budget but mainly on how much of a gobby pain in the arse you are! You have to fight, fight and fight some more, sadly. They HAVE to meet your childs needs. In theory. But in reality they will try to give you as little as they can get away with, so it's up to you to push them for every scrap.

For someone with a child with asd, the attachment of that label is a good thing - because you wave it around to get support for them!

I'm not an expert in autism, only an expert in my 2 kids , but I know that if your parental alarms are going off, you need to get on in there and never take piss off for an answer!

If you do feel there is something, go to your gp/hv well prepared. Go with a list of things that cause you concern, things that between them cover each of the 3 sections (see my earlier post about the triad)

Most importantly, keep an open mind. There may or may not be an issue, all you are seeking atm is an opinion. Don't work yourself up.

Thanks, Hecate - really good advice.

Will get a list organised for next week with the HV.

Ds1 suddenly started lining up toys and later turned out to be autistic. In his case, he lost his words and attention seeking behaviour. A consultant explained after observing him that it wasn't so much the lining up but the fact that he didn't for one second turn around, 'acknowledge' his mother (ouch!) or try to share the experience in a strange environment. I suppose it makes sense as ds2 lines up his toys and then says 'kain! choo choo!' (train) so it serves a purpose in his case and is some sort of imaginative play.

Ds1 would point (although not very often) but only when to an item he wanted not to share interest. Ds2 points anytime he sees a train or a plane, looks at me as if to say 'did you see that?'. It's worth checking out in my opinion.

Thanks finefatmama (good name!).Ds definately points to share interest saying there there.He brings things to show.

He does like things 'just so' if that makes sense and hates it if i move his line.He hands me another car saying share (I think he really means go away)!

I think in a strange environment he would be very clingy and not play unless I got down on the floor with him.

It does help to hear other experiences although I realise all children are different.

i think i may have wrote before

but i took my ds at 2 as speech problems was never one to line things up or have things just so

would point would share and would play with toys but he has been dx if there are any worries at all you should seek advise i was used to people saying normal behaviour hell grow out of it dont worry but glad i followed what i feared in my heart

now his more apparant at home he is fine but out of the home he needs routine and things done his way and because we took him early enough i have alot of support if i need it

better to know than not know as the earlier he is seen you can have your mind put at rest and he wuill get help wether it being a social disorder or asd dx theres help for you

but dont put it off and listen to the normal behaviour thing i did as now i have support he has different therapies he undertakes and his progress is amazing and i now feel less worried as we now know the situation

alot of children can display asd traits and not have it but should not be ignored get it checked and your mind can then be put at ease as youll know either way

Bubblagirl,

I hope you don't mind me asking but why was your ds seen by a paed at 2 if just speech problems and why did they decide it was ASD?
What sort of therapy has he been receiving and in what way have you seen progress?

Any advice on what should sort of things I be looking for in group situations such as toddler groups?
I know ds isn't that happy(clingy - likes to watch then gradually join in) in big groups but plays OK with(more alongside) another same age child.

I like to have lots of information with which to approach things as you can see from the fact my original post has now reached 100.Have already had 'wait and see,he is fine' from GP but he wasn't lining things up at this point.Just want to get things organised in my head as to what may be important for when I speak to the HV at his 2 year check.