My 3 year old still isn't toilet trained

[Allie]

Sam has been out of nappies for 3 months but has never asked to go to the toilet by himself. He is fed up with being prompted and refuses (vigourously!) to let us take him to the toilet. So he wees and poos his pants 4 or 5 times a day. He genuinely doesn't seem to know when it's imminent. Anyone else got this? His brother learned in the usual haphazard way about 2 and three quarters.

Thanks a lot Rmea, you've saved my sanity for now, I'll hang on to that advice - and give bribary a go (thanks Nw)

Hi again Loubel
I've tried bribery - a sweet didn't work so I moved on to Bob the Builder Video. We've had it for at least 6 months and I think he's seen it twice, so it certainly isn't working for us.
However I am thrilled to report that after weeks of reassuring him that he's not naughty when he "poos in his pants", he has started telling me there's a poo coming and hurrying off to the toilet. It's not been successful and I get the impreesion he's nervous for some reason but it's a step in the right direction. He has also started to tell me as soon as it happens which is great as it's much easier to clean up then. Sorry to be so frank! It's only been 2-3 days but I am feeling very positive about it. It would be nice to crack it before we go on holiday. We're staying in a hotel for the first time and I am a little concerned about dealing with dirty pants there!
Let me know how you're getting on.

No change so far - 3 accidents today, twice whilst out for lunch! He does tell me fairly promptly - thankfully. I've been wondering if it is anything to do with the state of his bowels (for want of a better phrase) - he's always been on the loose side and three actions a day is not unusual, although 1-2 is more normal for him. Not that it will make any difference anyway.
I've talked to him about rewards, but haven't shown him anything yet (not organised enough), but he did not seem that interested.
Good luck with your hotel Rmea!

Hi Loubel
Just thought I'd report no further progress. he is telling me when it's happened, but I'm a bit concerned that he is now telling me he hides when it's happening. My second daughter used to do that but that was because it hurt her so much and took so long (hours). This is different.

Just checking in to report a depressing lack of change. We have had a couple of occasions where he pooed in the right place, but despite plentiful praise and much discussion (from him), we are now back to square one. Washing pooey pants each day - isn't motherhood fun! Are you having any more luck, Rmea? How was the holiday?

It's getting better! Only one accident since the last message.
There's hope!!

My eldest (4 in 2 weeks) was fairly late out of nappies - he refused to use a potty at all (except at Nana's house for some reason!) My husband got into the habit of taking him with him every time he wanted to use the loo to try and give him the idea and we bought him boxer shorts "like daddy wears" as we had a major case of hero worship going on at the time. Suddenly at 3 1/2 he announced one day that he was going to the loo, ran off to the bathroom and had a pee standing up (better aim than his dad!) He has only had one accident since and that was when we were stuck in a traffic jam on a motorway.

Trouble is, he does still insist on a nappy at night and refuses to get into bed without one. The one night I insisted on no nappy, he slept on the bedroom floor all night and wet the carpet - a lot harder to clean than sheets! His nappy is always very wet in the morning. Any tips?

snugs, it really isn't possible to train them to night dryness - unless they have a problem with "functional bladder capacity" which one of mine has...

if your son does a lot of little wees during the day, then you can try giving him extra drinks during the day and encouraging him to hang on as long as possible before emptying his bladder - that way he may be more able to go through the night without weeing at all.

but if his bladder already has reasonable capacity, but he just isn't waking up when it decides to empty itself, you will have to wait until his brain recognises the signal; he is too young to start using buzzers etc.

it will be a lot less bother for you, and less of a worry for him, if he does go on wearing a nappy (or a huggies dry-nite, they are more comfortable), as long as he doesn't mind or feel like a baby. don't worry that he will never be dry at night - he will! - and i'm not sure of the exact figures but, at 4, i think getting on for 50% of children are still regularly wet at night.

Janh, thanks for that, I feel a lot more relaxed about it now - guess I was listening to my brother too much (who reckons to be Wonderdad!) who insists that my son will never get the idea of getting up to use the loo if he keeps on wearing nappies.
Of course, his son was completely out of nappies at 2 1/2 - but then again his daughter still needs them at nearly 6 so why am I listening to him?!

My son is three and a month and is quite reliable about potties and toilets for wees. He got the hang of this at 2 yrs 10 mths. However, in those 3 months since, we have had only one or two successes with poos. He will not tell me when he needs to do one and if I think he does and I ask him, he says no. He even denies it after I have seen it down the back of his pants! We have done the sticker thing and the treat thing but he seems to have an 'issue' about it. He either just does it in his pants or saves it for his night-time nappy.What do I do from here? No one else I know seems to have a child who does this.

Hilary, My friend went through this with her Daughter, I can't be much consolation apart from to say she does now seem to have grown out of it. She is now 4. However they did consult the health visitor and saw a specialist. There were two thoughts - one that she knew what she was doing but was too 'lazy' to go to the toilet (so they put her back in pull ups to try and embarass her out of it)and the second that she may be allergic to some foodstuffs which meant she didn't get to the loo in time, so they did start cutting out certain foods for a day or two in turn to see if there was any improvement. Not sure that either worked in themselves but the problem does seem to have gone away now.
Oh they also tried not rising to the bait, just changing her at some point later on and getting on as if nothing had happened so that if it was attention seeking she didn't get it.
Hope this ramble is of some help, good luck.

Thanks for that. I have been finding it really frustrating and annoying and I think I have been letting that show to my little boy. I've probably made it more stressful for him so I need to persevere with the 'no attention' thing and hope that sitting in it for a while will get him out of the habit! My hunch is that there is nothing physically wrong but it is worth bearing in mind. Thanks again.

Hilary,

My little girl is justthe same, we are having days of dryness, but in 6 months have only managed one poo in the potty/loo. She knows that she should do that, she tells me that she must 'tell mummy before I goo poo!', and she even puts her dollys on the potty for a poo! But she won't do it herself. I know she usually goes just after luch, so we have tried an extended sit on the potty with a story etc (up to 10 mins) but as soon as a nappy goes on for her nap, there's the poo! Leaving her without a nappy results in a poo in her pants, so that's not an option. She also has days when she'll do 3 poos in a row, so I'll clear up one, with her on the potty, ask if she needs to go again etc, then whoops two mins later and other etc etc. You are NOT alone! We were getting stressed, but now have decided not to worry much, she's only just about 2 and 10 months. We are looking at new things come the new year. I also think with her it's a power game, she knows where and how, but she won't do it because she gets attention as soon as she has done it in her pants. I might try leaving her for a while (although I have tried that with wet knickers when she denied doing a wee, and she didn't care, and didn't want to be changed!)

Crunchie and Hilary - I don't know if this will console you or not, but a friend of mine has 3 daughters, all of whom used to poo in their pants behind the sofa at about this age. The eldest got top marks in the country in one of her A levels this summer. The 2 facts MAY not be connected (!!!) but it's not the end of the world development-wise!

I am SO glad that it is not just me who is struggling with this. He did it again today and is getting really stealthy about it. He chose the exact same time as his 1 year old brother so I wasn't sure at first whether the smell was coming from two directions or just one but he was looking so guilty that I was suspicious! Again, he denied all knowledge even when I had seen it but I didn't do anything about it for ages thinking that eventually he would ask to be changed and at least he would be being honest about it but to no avail - he eventually had to be persuaded away from their game in order to be changed (AGAIN!)
I am not getting anywhere yet but am feeling much assured that it is a fairly common thing which lengthens patience no end...so thank you.

I've no surefire answers, Hilary, but I had the same problem with two of mine, as well. It's one of parenthood's well-kept secrets!

Hi Hilary! Yes you are not alone - it's really quite common, the "stealth poo"!!! Some kids get quite possessive about their poo, like it is part of them, and get a bit upset to see it unceremoniously flushed away! So they get sneaky, or feel the need for privacy (as do most of us, although it is usually a rare thing for us mums lol!)
If your ds prefers the security of the nappy when he does a poo, try lining the potty with one and then invite him to put his poo in it. Once he sees how much easier (and hopefully "cleaner" if you get my drift!) it is, he might take to it! Worth a try anyway...also try putting the potty somewhere more "private" if you haven't already...hope these ideas help!

Hilary, you are not alone - my ds is 3 yrs 9mths and still wont use the potty. I agree with another correspondent, it is one of motherhoods best kept secrets. I have tried everything, without success. I think in my ds's case it is laziness and wanting to cling to the familiar as he is very much like this in all other aspects of his personality. He doesnt mind that he is the only one at Playgroup not to use the toilet (peer pressure doesnt have an effect) Luckily I live very close and can come and sort out any accident he might have, but like lots of other children I suspect he keeps it in until he gets home anyway. I might try lining the potty with a nappy - I havent tried that one yet! Will let you know if I have success. Try not to worry too much about it, very difficult I know, especially in those wee small hours of the night when you cant sleep! Good luck!

Hi all ... I've been reading your notes and really giggling at the 'stealth poos'. I thoroughly empathise and think I'm gonna be following in these troubled footsteps! My ds is 2yrs 9mths and is at a nursery that they have 'to be dry' at. To be truthful, I fibbed and said he was. He wasn't. He knows what to do alright, he knows when he's done wee wee and poo poo, but downright denies it! Sometimes, when I can clearly smell it and I say, oh darling, have you done a poo poo, he looks at me with his blinking eyes and says earnestly, oh no mummy, poo poo no, wee wee yes! He NEVER admits to doing a poo poo! It makes me quite chuckle, although I know he's got to be trained by this summer before he goes to nursery full time.

Peer pressure doesn't bother him. Being wet or messy doesn't bother him, unless (wait for this one) he wants to draw out his bedtime and then suddenly it's mummy wet! or mummy Poo poo! But when I check, there's nothing there.....

I think I'm going mad!. He insists on coming to the toilet with me and his dad and tells everyone where we've all been, but I'm damned if he wants to try. I've bought a small potty and put his favourite stickers on it. I've bought a throne potty and he just pulls the seat out and sits in the hole. I'm not even going to try until the spring ! Just think Hilary, I bet by the time I try again, your little treasure will be dry and clean! Fingers x'd eh?

I don't want to put him back in nappies because as far as wees are concerned, he is potty trained and I don't want to discourage that for anything! I am just going to soldier on, hoping that it all comes right before too long. With wees and with other issues too, I have just carried on in my own little way and suddenly he seems to get the idea (like not waking up at 4am every day wanting to get up and play!) So no nappies, at least for now...

Yes, my ds also took a looong time to come round to the idea of doing poos in a toilet. It was easier to live with, though, as he would just ask for a nappy to do it! He was well over four before we finally got it sussed (old enough then for star charts to work - actually too well, I've never seen him go so often to achieve his aim of another piece of Lego!!) and still isn't always dry at nights. I think he just found it comforting, to be honest, and on long car journeys, so did I!

I wonder if anyone can help me on this thread. Robert is 2yrs 10 months and was potty trained at about 2 yrs 4 months, fab, excellent in both departments. Over the last three months he has completely lost the plot regarding pooing. He doen't know its coming, he start holds it in his pants and tells us. He screams if you suggest he may want to do a poo and will not sit on the loo just in case. I have tried sweets, character pants, getting upset, staying calm all to no avail and really do feel at the end of my tether. Help

nicki have u had a look at his bottom to make sure everything is ok down there?is he complaining of pain in his bottom or when he is doing a poo?we had this problem with our eldest son,he was totally trained at 2 years but when he was 3 1/2 he begun doing just what you are describing, it turned out that he had worms which he caught most probably from nursery as he had just started there. another thing the doc thought he might have had was a fissure,which is a small graze or tear inside his anus,this can be caused by dry stools,constipation or straining.After treating the worms he was fine but has since had two other episodes acting the same way and each time we just treated him for worms and he calmed down and started toileting as normal.

Good idea, I will check in the morning, thanks