Do boys get a sudden surge of arseyness at age 7 or is something else going on here?

[RubberDuck]

Over the last few weeks, ds1 has been getting more and more arsey with us: rudeness, backchat, "What-EVa", sulkiness and slamming doors, calling his brother names and generally being pretty unpleasant.

Previously, he's always got on well with his brother (apart from the occasional tiff) but this seems an ongoing campaign atm, and has always been a generally polite, easy going and friendly child.

I wouldn't even mind if he argued back his side of the story, because at the moment he won't even offer any defence to his behaviour. Just goes in a major sulky silence if you try and gently direct his behaviour - so something minor which could have been all cleared with a quick "sorry, mummy" gets blown out of all proportion. I should also add that I'm careful not to be nagging him all the time, pick my battles and also praise good behaviour - it just doesn't seem to be having much effect at the moment.

I'd hoped he was keeping this attitude just for his nearest and dearest, but no I've discovered that at a recent play date he was equally as rude (previous playdates he has been complimented on his manners, so quite a radical change in behaviour!). I'm guessing he's not going to be getting another invite to there!

It's low level, but the frequency of it is causing a horrible atmosphere and I can't just ignore it, but have no idea how to tackle it as my usual strategies seem to be completely failing. He just doesn't seem to care about any consequence.

So, do boys get a burst of hormones or something aged 7? Will this pass? Or should I just resign myself to having Kevin the Teenager in the house six years too early?!!

Oh yes, yes, yes. My nearly 7 year old is exactly like this at the moment. He is always right and always has to have the last word. It's very difficult. I agree about trying not to nag at him all day but equally refuse to just ignore some very cheeky backchat. I'm assuming it's an age thing and, like everything, will pass.

There was another thread about this yesterday - I think it was by eidsvold?

Oh I didn't see that - will search for it, thank you.

Honestly, I'm just relieved I'm not on my own! Had a very long heart-to-heart with dh last night trying to work out where we had gone wrong... I'm most gutted that he was so rude to his friend's mum - just not what we expected at all.

DS1 is coming up 8 and is currently a massive Kevin!
HE has gone from being an easy going placid boy into a door slamming, huffy nightmare.
He used to be so kind to DS2 and now pushes/ hits him any chance he can get. He is driving me mad.
Maybe it is an age thing, i don't know.
But I feel your pain!

ds (7.75 - 8 in September) can also be like this.

He even tired a "Am I bothered?" on me once when I was getting annoyed at him for not doing someithng . He followed it up later with a "Talk to the hand".

We don't watch Catherine Tate at home (except in Doctor WHo ) so he must be getting this from school.

I'm hoping that "this too will pass" - but am going to re-read "How to talk so children will listen" just to remind myself of good techniques. It deosn't help that dh refuses to read the book - decided he didn't like its principle after the first few pages - so jumps in with the threats immediately ds does something wrong.

I don't have a child this age but recognise the low level disruptive behaviour thing as I teach (secondary).

What works best is to tolerate absolutely none of the passive aggressiveness or anything else. In my department, just giving the wrong piece of body language is enough to have someone who is 'trying it on' to be removed from lesson to work with the HoD or to a lunch/break or 15m afterschool detention.

The rationale is that if you let a tiny problem like this go, it escalates and when you are finally ready to put your foot down, you have a more unpleasant battle on your hands. And it has wasted a lot of other people's time and good will.

In addition, there is absolutely no discussion when they ask *"why"?". Do not engage in conversation at all when they are trying to back track and negotiate themselves into a more favourable position. The only acceptable 'redemption' is to attend the detention. Sometimes kids try the 'if i am good, can i work it off'. Something I suspect they bring from primary because it is a popular thing i hear from Yr7. Nope. the only way to 'work it off' is the detention or other punishment.

It brings kids back in line.

Maybe you can find a way to make this tactic work in a home environment or maybe i am just a deluded teacher/mum.

Heh... I was flipping back through "How to Talk" last night too, but don't seem to have drifted too far out of sync with it.

That's interesting, kiskidee - was wondering with dh whether we should go a zero tolerance route or just continue to pick our battles carefully.

Problem is, ds2 (aged 4) is picking up on it and starting to behave in similar ways, so I do think we need to nip it in the bud. At the same time, I don't want to feel like I have to police every slight interaction they have either.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh yes. I have posted about this recently.

I really really hate the 'whatever' thing. Drives me insane.

(and don't get me started on the tale telling thing - another reason why I don't want to start policing their every interaction... "ds2 just called me stoooooopid", "Muuuuuuuuuum! Ds1 is being meeeeeeeeean to meeeeeeeee". AARRRGGGHHH!)

I think they MUST get a hormone boost as my gentle kind child has changed into the child with attitude from hell. It doesnt matter how many perks I take away from him, when he goes he goes - so far this week he has lost his trip to the cinema on the weekend, the simpsons for the week and today he has gone to school without a cake in his lunchbox

I do miss the lovely gentle boy he used to be although I understand he is an angel at school still

My youngest is already a bit of a tantrum thrower so I HATE to think what he is going to mutate into at 7.

Whatever seems fairly mild DS called me "fat woman who smells of wee"

Ugh WilyWombat Sulky silence punctuated with the occasional "I HATE you" seems almost restrained in comparison.

You don't know how relieved I am that so many of you seem to have hit this stage, though. Thank goodness for Mumsnet.

I would leave the 4yo and concentrate on the 7yo. the 4yo will be shocked and worried about how quickly the 7yo can be put back into order and will fall into line.

I would go with zero tolerance.

Define what is expected behaviour for everyone and anything that doesn't fall into that framework goes to zero tolerance.

I have what could have been a difficult yr8 group and by doing 0 tolerance from the very start, it has kept disruption down to an absolute minimum. Only a few expected characters (literally 2 or 3 from a group of 22 with about half capable of disruption from severe to low level and ongoing) put pushed hte boundaries and have learnt that by playing by everyone's rules they actually have a jolly good time in French and have learnt a few things too.

Beside the zero tolerance, also show your love and trust but that discipline is non-negotiable. It is always about being careful about the choice of words - saying you are punishing them because you care about them, their behaviour and what others think of them and how they make other people feel. (Basically telling them you are punishing them for their own good. ) I teach in an all boys and you can see them come down peg by peg when you start to get to their empathy.

Oh, I do not stop bending their ear till I have the body language that tells me that they are no longer being confronational (ie arrogance, smirking, hearing but not taking into account type of bodylanguage.)

Try really hard not to raise your voice and nipping it in the bud makes it easier not to do so. Kids find that scarier than someone who shouts. They already know by this age that when you raise your voice they have 'won' on some levels.

Good point about relating it continually to how they are making other people in the family feel.

Am unsure about the bending the ear thing continually as I strongly suspect that he tunes me out as soon as he goes into one of his sulky silences anyway (My trigger sentence for shoutiness is "Can I go now?" after I've just been patiently explaining why he is totally out of line - and he knows this totally winds me up, unfortunately).

Was thinking maybe marching him up to his room the moment he starts telling him he can return downstairs when he's ready to be pleasant to us all? Just if anything to remove us both from the situation and give me a chance to breathe. Then all I have to do is ignore the stomping around upstairs and crashing of stuff .

yes, mine too
is trying to be an utter despot with regards to every sound that comes out of ds2's mouth - grammar pedantary, very anti-burping etc etc.

will watch this thread with interest

Hmm... thinking about how this sort of behaviour is tackled in schools, I wonder if I should ask him how his teacher would react if he behaved like that in front of her?

Testosterone.

LOL at being an utter despot. That's exactly how I feel like I'm being at the moment. As a result, I'm not liking him and I'm definitely not liking me at the moment. This is why something has to give for all our sakes.

Oh dear. DS1 has been like this for a while and he's only in year 1. Will read thread thoroughly for tips.

I'm so glad I found this thread. My gorgeous little chap is 7 in October over the last few weeks has been unusually difficult. Telling me what he is and isn't prepared to do, shouting at me and then telling me not to stop shouting at him and generally being much more difficult that usual.
As usual I have been looking for clues as to why - is it because he will be moving schools in Sept? Is it because he has divorced parents etc etc etc

that should read 'telling me to stop shouting at him'. I rarely shout, by the way, having realised with my older son that they see it as a challenge!!

Yes, mine too.

"I done NuTin"

translation "I done nothing"....

even the translation sounds bad.

no you don't have to bend his ear continually. but a long detailed reminder when they at chosen moments, like when they are showing signs of listening, not when you and/or he is wound up, can do it.

the 'can i go now?' is to me a sign that he still thinks he is right. so the answer is 'no.' you may add/remind him, that only you decides when he can go.

if he threatens to up the ante then you remind him what your further punishment will be if he does that so he can't pretend he wasn't aware what you would do next if he continued to be out of line.

btw, a lot of people, even teachers, are unaware that boys listen better if they are not looking at you. Eye contact is a sign of aggression for males so looking away is a good thing.

You know, I'd heard about the eye contact thing before and completely forgotten about it, so thank you. That's really worth remembering.

I guess part of it is that I want to get out of the flash point situation as quickly as possible too. I know that I'll gradually get more and more frustrated and then start shouting (at which point he has "won") whereas a removal and a "we'll discuss this when you're prepared to be pleasant" gives us both a breathing space.

But then typing all that, my strategies obviously aren't working very well so maybe I should give that a go.

Must.keep.temper.

Yes, they seem to. Mine did too, but I put a lot of it down to other boys influence at school tbh, though kids do seem to be maturing physically much sooner these days, so perhaps it is to do with hormones(or maybe I'm just feeling old! )