Do boys get a sudden surge of arseyness at age 7 or is something else going on here?

[RubberDuck]

Over the last few weeks, ds1 has been getting more and more arsey with us: rudeness, backchat, "What-EVa", sulkiness and slamming doors, calling his brother names and generally being pretty unpleasant.

Previously, he's always got on well with his brother (apart from the occasional tiff) but this seems an ongoing campaign atm, and has always been a generally polite, easy going and friendly child.

I wouldn't even mind if he argued back his side of the story, because at the moment he won't even offer any defence to his behaviour. Just goes in a major sulky silence if you try and gently direct his behaviour - so something minor which could have been all cleared with a quick "sorry, mummy" gets blown out of all proportion. I should also add that I'm careful not to be nagging him all the time, pick my battles and also praise good behaviour - it just doesn't seem to be having much effect at the moment.

I'd hoped he was keeping this attitude just for his nearest and dearest, but no I've discovered that at a recent play date he was equally as rude (previous playdates he has been complimented on his manners, so quite a radical change in behaviour!). I'm guessing he's not going to be getting another invite to there!

It's low level, but the frequency of it is causing a horrible atmosphere and I can't just ignore it, but have no idea how to tackle it as my usual strategies seem to be completely failing. He just doesn't seem to care about any consequence.

So, do boys get a burst of hormones or something aged 7? Will this pass? Or should I just resign myself to having Kevin the Teenager in the house six years too early?!!

here is a little tip you may find useful as it seems to encapsulate what i mean about body language, if from an unorthodox source.

Have you seen the American dog training show called 'the Dog Whisperer' on one of the lifestyle channels?

the man who does the training sometimes refer to the body language of the dog you are trying to retrain. He does and imitation of how a dog who is seeming to obey but has still not backed down from his position, sits with his head and shoulders forward. he advises that you keep up the pressure/discipline till he drops his shoulders and relax his neck muscles till his head also drops 'back to normal'. In human terms it is a fine distinction to look for. You would also see the muscles in the face relax too in humans. These are signs of when they are not challenging you anymore and are acquiescing to your wishes/the rules.

DS1 came out with a classic the other day "you can't tell me what to do, you're not the boss of me". Er. Yes. I. Am.

'"we'll discuss this when you're prepared to be pleasant" gives us both a breathing space.' yes that works. for us it is, we can discuss this at 3.15 when you have your detention" Of if I haven't given a detention, I would nicely say, if you want to discuss this lets do that when we both have more time.... at 3.15. Not one kid has yet come back to discuss.

Rubber - "I'm not liking him and I'm definitely not liking me at the moment."

I thought exactly this about DS1 after a particularly trying day.

good advice from kiskideesameanoldmother

My nearly 9 year old has just started being arsey. My just 7 year old was born arsey, but we cope. I think I am quite arsey so I can't blame them

Perhaps that's it - I can be incredibly stubborn, so that's immediately the trait that winds me up most in my kids

Yes, thank you kiskidee - some fab advice there.

katierocket: laughed out loud about the 'you're not the boss of me' comment!

KR - we've been having the "you're not the boss of me for aaaaages (met with the same answer ). Not helped by the fact that his friend is called Ross and was given the nickname "Ross the Boss" by his uncle and has a tendency to be a bit of a bully bossyboots, which ds, as an other (not as bad) alpha male, resists.

It's takes dh all his will pwer not tell ds that he should call his friend "Ross the Ross" rather nthan "Ross the Boss".

LOL prettybird. It is very tiring sometimes though isn't it.
You sound like me Rubberduck. I'm naturally fairly, ahem, hot-blooded (for which read stroppy and impatient) which is obviously the worst temperament to deal with this kind of behaviour.

My newly-minted 8yr old dd(b'day early June) can be a horrible little strop. Rude, sulky, defiant, sullen. Except when she wants something. And her classmates are even worse.

we could do with some input from Cod and LTH, they have 7 boys between them.

Oops : the point of my story was somewhat spoilt by my typo: meant to say "It's takes dh all his will pwer not tell ds that he should call his friend "Ross the Toss" rather than "Ross the Boss".

Well I didn't like to ask...

That non eye contact thing is in a great book called Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph. This was recommended to me by a psychologist when my Ds was a baby! Do you think she could see it in him way back then?!
The front cover says ' Why boys are different - and how to help them become happy and well-balanced men'.

Ds used to be well mannered etc, but now is a total nightmare. Eats like a pig, interrupts constantly, doesn't listen...I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.
He usually spends weekends with my parents. We have had two consecutive weekends where he's stopped at home and after the first weekend, he actually told me that he'd enjoyed being with me that weekend because I hadn't shouted at him all the time. What couldn't he understand then about ' well if you don't give me good cause to shout, I don't need to shout at you, do I'?
I think I'm going to have to have a read of my book though...

Great advice kiskidees. It's refreshing to ' hear' it from a different angle so to speak.

You know, I have that book somewhere (Raising Boys) - I vaguely remember reading it when ds1 was about 2. I have NO IDEA what I've done with it though as it's not on the bookshelf any more.

katierocket: I know exactly what you mean about the worst temperment for this behaviour.

In fact, I remember always getting along badly with my father growing up for exactly the same reason - we were continually clashing and neither of us would back down and admit we were in the wrong, and we never had a very great relationship as a result. I don't want this to happen between me and my sons

I do think I'm fairly good at admitting when I've gone too far - I will apologise to my children when I think I've behaved badly (something that would have been unheard of in my parents house ). Then there's always the risk of going too far the other way and not stamping on behaviour that needs to be nipped in the bud, just because I'm afraid of repeating patterns.

There's a happy medium somewhere, isn't there?

(and I love the Ross the Toss story, even if it took some re-explaining )

Very interesting about the non eye contact thing.

I had the same thing with my dad (I'm not just repeating what you say honest!) so I'm hyper aware of it. Doesn't stop me from nagging though!

I've got a ds of 7 and 1 of 8 and they're taking it in turns to be arsey at the mo...
The last few weeks I've been soooo tough on them, not shouting, but very definite warnings and sanctions for fighting, not sharing, giving each other and us lip. It's helping I think,...well it's helping me feel more in control anyway. TBH I think they are both tired, they're doing loads of sport inc. swimming every day, both worked hard for their sats..Roll on the holidays I say

Rubberduck

ehem,

BTW: I have a 'Raising Boys' by Biddulph,

FFP, if anyone wants it. Just CAT me.

I bought it for when a nephew was living with us. I will one day have teenage girls and I have no experience with them, working in an all boys school. TBH I am more scared of girls' temperament than of boys'.

IIRC, the book says that you should always try to have conversations with your boys whilst driving in the car as they(and you)are looking ahead and not at each other. These days, that's an expensive conversation!

1. he is tired
2. about hormone surge theory
3. zero toelrance
4. good modelling of behaviour
5. agree sancitons wiht dh - in proptiona dn tiemely

definitely get get through to DS1 more when we are in the car.

My problem with dh is that he jumps to sanctions he has no intetnion of following thourgh on - and then has to work out some face saving way aof allowing ds to "earn" them back