Controlled crying ...pls help

[Betsy07]

Hi I'm new to mumsnet...

Hope somebody can help.I started CC last week with 7.5 month DS. 1st night was 1 hr..2nd night 35 mins & 3rd night 5 mins.. next few days there were no problems.
Until 3 days ago...he started his old routine and fights his sleep ...trashes...screams..coughs....chokes......I used to go back every 10 mins & leave only when he calms down...but as soon as I leave the room...he starts again & he seems even more upest than b4. So I decided to leave him alone and not go back...I don't know if I'm doing the right thing.

Is it normal for them to go back into their old routine so soon?...I thought i was successful.

Hello, well done you to start with, it is not easy to do cc and its sounds like you are doing a great job.

Warning ahead, there are some MNers who don't agree with CC and some who do so be prepared for some comments this way and that. I agree that each person is different and entitled to their own opinion, and every baby is different.

I think that they can go back to old habits much as they can crawl for a few days then nothing for a few weeks. Does he have breaks in the crying and listen for your footsteps? I did cc at 16 weeks (yes, I know, I could be stoned for that) but DD was ready and got it in 3 days. I used to count 1,2,3,4 between every bought of crying and could tell she was just checking to see if I was coming back and when it was just temper. As the pauses got longer she was obviously realising that it was time to go to sleep. I never allowed her to get distressed and always knew she was fine as when I did go back in she would give me a massive smile! I think the technical term for that was cheeky monkey )

I am of the mind set that a child has to learn to settle itself at night. I ws lucky as I know some parents try and their babies are not ready for cc until much older. My DD practically throws herself at her cot now come 7pm as she is so comfortable and happy to be going to sleep.

Keep going, you are doing a great job and I am sure your DS will learn to settle himself really well. Good luck!

How long does he cry for when you just leave him to it?

personally no, I don't think you're doing the right thing.

your baby wants you and you're ignoring him.
you're teaching him that when he is upset and cries you won't bother going to see him

that's why CC "works". your baby won't cry any more because he knows no-one will come.

And I agree that sometimes they can regress after cc. Any new developmental milestones or teething or the slightest hint of separation anxiety can set them right back for a few weeks. You may find you have to retrain him every now and then. Good Luck!

I think that's my problem with 'controlled crying'(it may feel controlled to you but I'm sure your baby doesn't feel in control). You just have to keep doing it every time they get a tooth, get ill, have a night away from home etc. Plus can you be sure they are not ill etc, I never could. It's very hard when they won't go to sleep but they grow out of it. Good luck.

There is another thread going on about Pick Up Put Down. Not quite sure how that works (Baby Wisperer?) but maybe I did that without realising. I did pick DD up each time I went back but just left it slightly longer (and we are only talking 1 minute!) each time. Maybe tap into that thread?

We are now at the point that even with colds/teething/upset tums I can go in, change DD or give her calpol, give her a nice cuddle and she will go back down no problem, just as long as she has her two pink bunnies to cuddle she is just fine bless her.

I'm afraid I tend to agree with reikizen, I'm not against cc, I say if it works for you then do what ever it takes to stay sane but I have never been able to do it with my ds. I found it much much too hard and also, how do you know your baby isn't crying for a genuine reason?

Separation anxiety may seem like a cunning ploy by your baby just to get you to cuddle them but it is a genuine fear to them. They hate it when they wake up and you are not there and hate to go to sleep without you there as they are terrified you won't come back.

If it is simply separation anxiety, which started about this age with my ds, then I really wouldn't leave him to cry for any length of time. The quicker he realises you will go to him whan he needs you, the quicker he will realise that he doesn't need to cry for you to prove you are there. He will instinctively know that you are there if he genuinely needs you.

I personally sit on the fence with cc, am not really for it anymore in principle, but having done it with dd1 (when she was a toddler) and tried a veeery tamed version with my dd2 i can't attack anyone who does try it because i know how badly everyone wants their baby to sleep.

So here's my opinion:

Perhaps he's a bit too small? And there are so many things going on at this age that any kind of sleep training is really hit and miss as to whether or not it will work. I don't think that leaving him at length is a good idea, there could be something else the matter with him if he's crying that much (teething pain perhaps? 7mo is peak teething time.. Or strange sensations in his stomach due to new foods?) and to not deal with that and offer comfort could affect his trust in you. Plus, it won't work if he's in discomfort or scared. He'll just cry himself to exhaustion and then wake up with the same pain, or fear.

So basically I think sleep training (in whatever form, be it cc or other milder versions) is best left for later on.

What does he do if you stay in the room and gently keep lying him down, pat him/rub his back/stroke his cheek etc?

I agree with violetsmile, it does not work for all babies. I am quite sure if I have another one (that would make it 4....) then it may not be the answer. The only answer is trust your baby and follow their lead.

I have done CC with both of mine, but only when I know theyre healthy and generally 'mucking about' (i.e. when you go in, and they laugh at you)
I left them for 2 mins, went in, stroked their face, siad night night, and left the room.
I then increased time by 30 seconds every time I left the room, so 2 mins, 2 1/2 mins, 3 mins..... etc. never left them for longer than 10 mins, and if they got themselves worked up, I went immediately.
Dont pick them up (unless you suspect they have wind, and even then they'll probably laugh at you)keep speech to a minimum and avoid too much eye contact if you see them getting excited.
I wouldnt leave him to cry for longer than 10 mins, and you may have to repeat this for a couple of hours til he settles, but like your first attempt last week, you may find that he settles quicker each time.
As BLUEBUMEDFLY said, there are some MNers who are very anti-cc, so watch your back as you'll probably be accused of child abuse or neglect, Dont take it to heart, listen to your instincts, and welcome to MN,

By the way, what were you doing before you did cc to try to get him to sleep?

I also totally agree that you have to keep doing it, it's a quick fix not a permanent solution, and to be honest that's why i didn't really bother with dd2. I look back on the nights with dd1 and wonder why i put myself through it.

Thanks Jellybelly, I posted about CC when I was new to MN and I have only just gotten over the shock of the reaction! When I used to go back in after the 30 second break and DD laughed at me I used to laugh and we were back to square one - at least I knew she was just fine!

I did CC with my DC and it worked well with the first 2 but DD2 has still had trouble staying asleep for more then a few hours without me going in just the once to settle her down.
Sorry this is a bit of a hijack but I have just had a big row with DH about why DD2 won't sleep all the way through the night and am hoping for a bit of moral support.
She's 17 mo and wakes at the moment once about 4am normally because there's a noise outside, if I go in she settles immediately and goes through till 5 or 6 when she gets a bottle and sleeps through til 7.30 ish.
I am exhausted as recently she was teething,and not sleeping at all at night and DH has been away for most of this month and I have been at home on my own with DD2, DD1 4yo and DS7.
I think her sleeping is quite normal for her age but DH says its because i haven't left her to cry without going in at all. If he had his way he'd let her cry all night so she'd learn.
Or am I getting it rong,CC is aboutleaving them for a while not all night isn't it?

I did cc crying with dd1 at 6wks I think the earlier they learn to self settle the better all round. The rules are entrenched and baby knows whats expected at bedtime. (Just call me GF!)I'm not really, but it works. DD1 is now 2.5 and I can count on my fingers the amount of disturbed nights I have had with her after cc.
DD2 is 11wks and we have not done it with her, just pick up/put down because of waking dd1 and although she is getting better at going to bed, its a much slower process than cc. 6wks on we still have 2 attempts to put down.

CC is SO not about leaving them all night. It is about regular checks and making them feel they are not being left to just cry and cry although I know so people think if you do CC you must be a hideous parent.

My DD started waking at 4am for no reason other than her sleeping bag had become twisted or she had run out out cot to crawl up in her sleep. It lasted for about a month and has now stopped and she is back to sleeping till 7.

I did have to look at her daily food intake. Whilst she does not eat enough to keep a sparrow alive I have increased her protein at lunch time significantly and made sure she gets a good protein/carb mix at tea followed by an oat based cereal bar and 6 then milk at 7. She has totally stopped waking in the night, I am guessing she was just waking with the tummy rumbles.

I do feel for you, single parenting ain't fun at all, let alone when you do get input it feels like critisism. You have 2 kids, you know them and you know what they can and cannot cope with. Would it be worth looking at her daily diet?

I'm quite sure your LO won't accuse you of neglect or abuse for leaving him to go to sleep. Babies need to learn to settle themselves, and it DOES get easier. As with all things baby, things change constantly, just when you think you've cracked it, it goes tits up and you re-think it.

You will probably instinctively know the different cries, yells and shouts and when there is something that needs addressing, when they are just too tired and expend that last bit of energy, or when they are properly upset and in distress.

I've done CC successfully, although with DC4 I was far more about attachment parenting and barely put her down for 10 months. We co-slept, she kept me awake all night, and I her as she'd want to feed for comfort. In the end, into her cot and a bit of 'shouting it out' with some retreating. She still doesn't like going to bed on her own, but she is getting quality sleep and IMHO that is very important to a baby's development.

You've come so far. Some MNers will disapprove, but you do what you think, because that is what will work for you. Good luck

Stella I would say IMO it is less cruel at a very young age because they haven't got preconcieved ideas about the world so they learn and accept that that is what happens at night time far more quickly, with less tears in the long run.

you mean they learn and accept that when they cry for comfort no-one bothers coming. so they stop because there is no point.
thus they don't get comfort when they need it.

Not all night just when I had checked everything, given lots of cuddles etc and her problem was overtiredness. The more I picked her up, the worse it got, so yes I left her to cry, she went to sleep and became much happier and settled during the day as a result of having good night time sleep and structured nap times.
Much more settled than dd2 who doesn't have structured naps yet and bf every 1.5-2hrs all day. DD1 was FF fed from 6wks so it was easier because she went 3-4hrs between feeds.

CC @ 6 weeks old!

There's alot of misunderstanding about CC, obviously. You go in at regular, quite small - progressively larger - intervals.

So, you might give them a kiss, tell them 'night night' and put them down and walk away. Half a minute later, you might go back in, then a minute, then two etc. Its about constant reassurance, that you are there and you do return. It is not neglectful, it is a technique.

When you are knackered do you want to be pawed at by your DH for hours? Would you want him constantly hugging you and never put you down all night every night? I wouldn't! Why would I expect my baby to want it. She had plenty of cuddles in the day and before bed. She knew that bed is for sleep and consequently I am not one of the mums on here who has ever had cause to complain about my toddler not going to bed.........

I am of a different view. If a baby is ready to self-settle and generally sleep through (and this differs from baby to baby), then CC should work fairly quickly and there shouldn't be regressions. There is a good chance at 7.5 months that Betsy's baby is not ready.

Otherwise you would need to have the stomach to do CC for each teething episode or illness, all through separation anxiety, developmental milestones and whatever will rock your baby's world at such a young age.

I wonder, do you CC when you know baby is poorly, or after you know baby is better but then you would have to 'break' a bad habit that reformed during the period of the illness.