DS(4) sent home from school nursery for hitting (long)

[alison222]

I had to go and collect him from school nursery early this morning as he had hit the classroom assistant and hit/kicked 3 children in the playground. He is normally very boisterous and lively but not usually violent.
I have talked to him but he either can't or won't tell me why he did it. He knows how wrong it is. He knows how upsetting it is to be on the recieving end of this behaviour.
I can't think of anything that has changed lately at home to cause this to happen.
The other main concern is that he doesn't seem to realise the seriousness of his actions.
I have to arrange to go to speak to the teacher about it and discuss ways of controlling his behaviour. I'm terrified he is going to be labelled as a problem child at this early age.
I have banned TV and computer games for a week so far, and now need a carrot to go with this- am considering swimming lessons. But how do I make him understand how serious it is. This seems to be the teachers main concern too.

is he tired or feeling 'off' at all?

oh dear you must be feeling upset about that

I have a nearly 4 year old who is boisterous too and has been on the receiving end of this when he was younger, so I can imagine this happening to us at some point.

I have to say I'm not sure swimming lessons would be a good carrot if he is reacting against a teacher, as IME it's hard for kids that age to listen to a teacher in an exciting environment like a swimming pool and they may wind up being more of a challenge than a treat IYSWIM

What aobut going to a football match or a sporting event or somwhere like an indoor playpark where he can run around and release all that testoserone.

Also, I think you should get his dad to explain how serious his behaviour was as I think boys take their dads a bit more seriously thatn their mums at this age. Well mine does anyway

HTH

Yes - just recovered from a troat and ear infection and going to bed early- but its not the first time he's been in trouble for bad behaviour at school although last time it seemd to be a one-off. They kept an eye for a few weeks but he was generally good.
They have been giving him his friut early to make sure he isn't hungry as if he is I have noticed his behaviour deteriorates, and I have been putting him to bed early. (he sleeps 11-12 hours ever night)
I am currently giving him multi-vits and echinacea although have only just sterted the latter on the nurse's advice after his sore throat.
I would give him fish oils but he is badly allergic to cod.

His dad will be explainging when he gets home from work - no fear of that not happening.
Hmm take your point about the swimming teacher.
It wasn't just the teacher though.
I feel like the world's worst mum at the moment.

OK then how about this, if you feel up to it, ask your good friends - the ones whose kids he plays wirh - to be honest and candid and tell you if they think you could be doing anything differently to discipline your son.

That way you will find out if there is anything you could be doing that you are not and also you will get support over things you are doing and that should make you feel better

If he is allergic to cod you could try giving him haliborange as this is made from halibut not cod. Or you could switch to the flora which has omega3 and 6 added, and those columbus eggs.

Hemp oil is also a good non-fish source of essential fatty acids, Alison.
Boys do have an extra load of testosterone around 4-5 apparently, it doesn't reach that peak again until puberty. Might explain his behaviour of late. The problem is helping them find strategies to deal with their surges of energy in a non-aggressive manner.
Dare I ask what sort of computer games he is playing? Just wondered if he had an older sibling or your dp is into these and if he was maybe seeing stuff that was stirring him up more than usual? But I bet it's just hormones.

hi Marina

what happens if you give fish oils without there being a "problem"

Do they have preventative properties do you thinkg? DS1 starts kindergarten next week and I 'm getting a bit worried

His sister is nearly 2. The computer games are either cbeebies ones or strictly educational - jump ahead toddlers, phonics, frankies pet friends - aimed at his age
Triceratops he is also allergic to eggs sesame and almonds
I'd love to think it was just hormones - but even so he needs to learn to control these urges.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Also I'm really worried about him getting a bad name at school at such an early age

Apparently boys get a massive rush of testosterone at about age 4, which will then calm down in time for age 5. This is why previously passive little boys can turn into unholy terrors at 4

Try "Raising Boys", it is very good! Apologiezs if you already have it!

If he's been sent home early he probably does realise how serious it is. What about getting him to make 'sorry' cards for the classroom assistant and children involved?

I agree with Marina (have now done this twice today Marina - am not stalking you honestly...) that boys need to be able to let out their energy in non-aggressive manner. What about something like karate lessons - we are looking round for this for ds aged nearly 5. We also exercise DS like a dog - he has to have at least half an hour running around madly a day to be able to be calm the rest of the time. Agree that you might look at what he has been exposed to - ds as recently started kicking which is from playing Power rangers with other boys in the plaground (he's never watched anything like this at home - strictly limited to cbeebies atm).

Also - are you confident that the staff at nursery see the behaviour coming? I can see when my ds is getting het up and can mainly head off this kind of behaviour by taking him out of the situation or distraction. Do they do rewards for good behaviour there? My DS used to get stamps/ stickers/ maybe borrowing a special toy for the night or something like that?

Oh is that right Colditzmum? That's interesting because my ds1 is coming up to 4 in March and he is becoming rather more boisterous and exciteable lately. He's not violent or anything but just absolutely hyper and manic!! His nursery teacher said 'he's really coming out of himself' in that he's more willing to stand and sing in front of others etc but along with that new found confidence is new found mania!

Keep looking at that book but not sure - think I'll try it - with 3 ds's I think I might need all the help I can get!

Alison222 - sorry to hear you are having a bad time with ds. I know what you mean about not wanting him to have a bad name - I wonder if he has some insecurity at nursery and that's why he's lashing out? Quite often children that behave that way are trying to tell you something else so I don't know, maybe someone has upset him or is he feeling 'lost' among all the children?? I don't really know but I'm just trying to come up with something. Is there something they give him to eat at nursery that perhaps has an affect on him, particularly as he seems prone to allergies and reactions?

On the not realising the seriousness of his behaviour - I would love to know how many 4yo boys really can do that, to the extent they can reliably stop themselves acting on whatever impulse they're feeling. We should do a poll!

I know for absolute certain mine (now heading for 6) couldn't at 4 - I used to get such blank looks - while dd, on the other hand (now 4), is capable of dreadful priggish self-commentary on the lines of, oh I wanted to stamp my foot mummy but I knew it would be naughty.

But if he isn't grasping seriousness of actions now, he will - I am sure that some children just take a bit longer to get this. I should say though that if your ds is like mine you may be in for the long haul - we have gone gradually from blank looks, to sorry looks, to ability to discuss what has gone wrong; and just occasionally now being able to bring himself up short before he does whatever it is he shouldn't.

I don't think phonics triggers aggressive behaviour...not in children anyway Alison!
Hi Suzy (and Puddle too ) - they have so many other health benefits that I am happy to add them to ds and dd's diets anyway. I would have thought that by helping with concentration ability they would also anticipate and mitigate that mad surge.
Like Binkie's ds, mine is now emerging blinking from the tunnel of five, and starting to be much better at reading others' feelings and being aware that some behaviours hurt other people or are not appropriate. I think we got off lightly compared to many but he was still very different from our meek and cute toddler...

He doesn't seem to take it seriously when the teacher tells him off - even in front of me. Actually I think he looked embarassed more than anything else as he was hopping up and down and loking out of the window and smirking for want of a better description.
He is under no illusions as to how cross I am but it doesn't seem to have dampened his spirits any so far. He was already makeing a sorry card for the teacher but can only remember one of the children's names that he hurt. I don't want to do one card and miss out the other 2 children.
No I don't think they can sense his behaviour coming.
They only give fruit - and as he will from choice only eat grapes or babanas that is what he gets, so I don't think it is that.

BTW I am now getting frustrated tears because he can't get the pencil sharpener to wrok properly.
He seems to get very despondent if he can't do things first time

Having talked to him again and dropped off DS this morning, I spoke to the nursery assisitant (the teachers do a job share and today there is a temporary teacher in the class). It appears that they like me recognise that whilst DS is very verbally able, his emotions have not kept up and he gets frustrated very easily. It also appears that he got tripped over in the playground and lashed out rather than just hitting for the sake of it.
Now they want to involve the special needs teacher adn label him as special needs. I have no experience of this. Instinciviely I react against a label, but also wonder if this is something that will be short lived and may benefit him. Does nyone have any experience of this?

It completely depends on how the school/nursery makes use of "special needs" resources - if there is a good, positive, non-blinkered SN co-ordinator with lots of imaginative ideas then it can only help your ds and you, now and in the long term, whether he may have any special needs or not, and whatever ideas about him may get floated; if it is someone who wants to decide that he has a problem and it is X (and then that's their job done) then it's helping no-one at all. On the vexed question of "labelling", you'll find that discussed v widely on other threads, which I'll try & find & link to for you. I am firmly on the side of having a diagnosis if one is needed.

I do recommend you meet with the SN person and just find out if you feel they can help. But as an aside, my ds has been helped far more by his supportive, experienced class teacher (who admitted to me this morning she has not come across a child like him in 25 years of teaching, but she keeps on coming up with ideas) than by an SN person who was very obviously baffled and then just gave up.

Thanks binkie,
I am waiting for the teacher who wasn't in today to contact me so I'll know more about what they intend then.
TBH I have no idea about what this will entail as DS is my oldest and i've never come across anything like this before

He'll grow out of it!!

I really hope so. And the quicker the better for all concerned.
Is there anything constructive I can do to help though?