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Original poster

DD's friend has been abusing another classmate, her mum wants DD to stay at her house.

99 replies

suchAdilemma · 17/06/2008 21:14

I don't know what to do. DD is friends with two girls (all of them are 5 or 6). DD told me the other day that she saw girl A put her hand into girl B's private parts when she went to the toilet. When DD asked girl A what she was doing, she said 'nothing' and left the toilet. Girl B started crying and told DD that this girl kept playing mummies and daddies and pushing her fingers in and hurting her. This happens every day at school. She also said that girl A had told her that if she told anyone that she would 'hurt her hard in her tummy'. When DD told me this I was obviously shocked - I rang girl B's mum and told her this. She has found out that this all started when her DD was 4, and has been happening whenever they play together. Girl B's mum has confronted girl A's mum, but doesn't think she has spoken to her daughter.
I asked DD if girl A has ever tried to do this with her, and she says no. However, DD doesn't like going over to her house to play, but will only say 'because she doesn't play nicely mummy'. Now I have had a phone call this evening from girl A's mum asking if DD can go over for tea this week. I have made an excuse, saying that the girls have fallen out, but I really don't know what I should do - should I confront her myself and let her know that I know? This seems completely abnormal behaviour from a 6 year old girl, and I am worried sick about it. I wonder if girl A's mum thinks it is just a harmless game they have been playing, and is in denial about this.

OP posts:
Original poster
suchAdilemma · 17/06/2008 23:22

Aveanap, you are right. I will contact school tomorrow morning regardless.
Thank you for your clear thinking.

OP posts:
avenanap · 17/06/2008 23:28

It's OK. I really do feel for you and it must be so hard to know what to do. The other mums won't be thinking properly though so you need to do what is right for these children. They both need someone to help them. I've seen and worked with children like this and it really does break my heart. They need a sensible, responsible adult to stand up for them and get them the help that they need. You can do this!

www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/whatchildabuse/sexualabuse/sexualabuse_wda36370.html

bossybritches · 18/06/2008 07:01

Avenapp-so true.

Child A's mother may be being abused herself, & is in denial about what is happening & therefore unable to "do something about it " herself. Whatever the scenario at home the bottom line is this girls behaviour is NOT normal.

Well done you OP for not turning your head & dismissing it as none of your business as many would have done (understandably)

Such a horrible situation for you, come back & chat more if it helps.

EllieKat · 18/06/2008 12:12

This is so horrible.

Can I back up everyone who suggested that Girl A is herself being abused, with some anecdotal 'evidence'? Virtually the same scenario played out - twice! - in a reception class in the infant school where my mother taught, about 20 years ago. In both cases, the instigators of the abuse were found themselves to be undergoing severe sexual abuse by adults. In one case, the abuse was copy-catted all through the class and half the children were involved before an adult noticed.

I honestly think you owe it to the children directly involved to make a stand over this, in case the parents have their heads in the sand.

Cammelia · 18/06/2008 12:23

What was the school's response when you told them suchAdilemma?

I wouldn't let my dd go to Girl A's house.

When my dd "fell out with" another girl at a similar age to these girls, the other mother invited dd round. I thought it was to be the start of a reconciliation. Instead the other mother had only invited dd round to have an opportunity to tell dd off with regards to the falling out

controlfreakyagain · 18/06/2008 21:20

what happened op?

Yurtgirl · 18/06/2008 21:26

Hi suchadilemma how was today?
I have been thinking about those little girls all day

duchesse · 18/06/2008 21:35

I have read the OP only but I have to say that it sounds as though girl A is being abused by someone and is modelling this behaviour. I personally would speak to child social services about this, and CERTAINLY tell her teacher what your daughter has told you. Please, this is very important. This is way beyond normal childhood curiosity.

duchesse · 18/06/2008 21:37

Oh, ad given what I suspect about poor little A's situation, do not let your daughter go to this child's house, obviously. You could offer to meet them at the park (little chance of anything untoward happening there).

Original poster
suchAdilemma · 20/06/2008 01:03

I didn't go to the teacher in the end. Girl B's mum asked me not to just yet. She went round to Girl A's house. I pleaded with her not to confront her, but she wanted to give her the benefit of doubt and give her a chance to sort it out (her words, not mine).
She spoke to her mum - demanding that she do something about it, and stop girl A hurting girl B.
Girl A's mum has asked her daughter if it is true - at first she denied it, but later admitted she had touched girl B, but said it was just a game, and they both touched each other. She has also said that she has touched another girl too. All this in the toilets at school.

Now Girl A's mum doesn't want the school or social services involved as she is convinced she can stop her daughter from doing these things.

I have managed to get girl B's mum to arrange a meeting with the teacher, despite girl A's mum protesting that she can deal with it. Even if it is just a game, the school needs to be aware of what is going on and put a stop to it.

I am sure there is more to it than a game, and I am sure girl A's mum knows this too, but is frightened of the consequences.

It is a bloody mess, and in the middle of it all two very disturbed little girls. I have been on the phone for hours these past two days, trying my hardest to get girl B's mum to do something. I am going with her to say what I heard, so it is not one just girl's word against another.

OP posts:
SmugColditz · 20/06/2008 01:06

YOu need to go to the school.

What would you do if, in 10 years time, this girl confesses to you that someone abused her sexually for 5 years and everyone was too scared to say a word?

What if the lack of intervention means it escalates?

What if this child is being treated for pregnancy and vd in 8 years time?

What if she is 3 weeks away from being raped?

You need to act, you must!

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney · 20/06/2008 01:06

perhaps you could print off this thread and get girl B's mother to read it, and see how many people, with professional experience, have said they think it points to sexual abuse. that might help push her into further action along with you to save girl A (and her daughter, and others!) from any further harm. wishing you good luck and strength in this. will watch for updates. xx.

Original poster
suchAdilemma · 20/06/2008 01:10

Colditz, Girl B's mum and I are going to school later today. (crikey, it's Friday already, have been on the phone for hours.)

OP posts:
fortyplus · 20/06/2008 01:13

Of course girl A's mother doesn't want it reported to social services! Please read all the advice you have been given and don't leave this in the hands of the parents! If you're not comfortable with contacting ss then ask to speak in confidence to someone at the school.

onthemove · 20/06/2008 09:10

I am so shocked that this thread is still going and the incidents have still not yet been reported.

How can any mother with knowledge of what is going on (even if not to their own child) not report it immediately??

Nobody knows how many other children might be being/have been abused by this girl, and as has been said it is quite probable that this girl is being abused herself, and she may still be being abused every day that this is not reported.

Words fail me.

duchesse · 20/06/2008 10:31

I would imagine that Girl A's mother knows who is doing this and is trying to protect them. Does girl A have an older brother? Or a Stepfather? Could even be her natural father. Any way, you are perfectly entitled to ring SS in confidence and report what you know and your concerns- in fact it is your duty to do so.

Do not beat about the bush. This child's safety is more important than preserving her mother's dignity. Her mother clearly cannot sort this herself or she would have done by now. They both need help through specialist channels.

duchesse · 20/06/2008 10:34

It could even be her mother herself- hence the various people urging you not to attempt to deal with it amongst yourselves. If you are for real (and I cannot believe that anyone whose child had witnessed another child being sexually abused albeit by another child would delay for so long reporting this) at the very least the school should be aware that abuse is taking place on its premises and should ensure that this girl is not left unsupervised in the toilets with other children. This is so very far beyond the norm. Please do something about it.

QuintessentialShadows · 20/06/2008 10:38

Bloody Hell.
You still dragging your feet about this?
It is friday. Go DO something now. Tell the school.

If the mother is the abuser, of course she is not going to "do" something to help her dd, she is more likely to take revenge on the poor child. I think, it is child cruelty to let this go on.

In fact, you are helping a sex offender by NOT doing something. It is also cruel to keep putting the child on the spot trying to get help, and she is now failing. She has FAILED getting the help she needs, as now her behaviour might stop and there will be NO signs of what is going on, because she might be threatened by her mum that if she EVER play act this again, or say something bad about her mum she will REGRET IT.

I am getting really that this is allowed to go on.

QuintessentialShadows · 20/06/2008 10:40

Or come to think of it, maybe the abuser even is the mum of the other child? Maybe that is why she doesnt want to report? IT COULD BE ANYBODY!

QuintessentialShadows · 20/06/2008 10:40

Or come to think of it, maybe the abuser even is the mum of the other child? Maybe that is why she doesnt want to report? IT COULD BE ANYBODY!

QuintessentialShadows · 20/06/2008 10:40

Or come to think of it, maybe the abuser even is the mum of the other child? Maybe that is why she doesnt want to report? IT COULD BE ANYBODY!

StealthPolarBear · 20/06/2008 10:57

B's mother is being a wimp
Please tell someone - you will be doing the best thing for A

saywhat · 20/06/2008 11:06

suchadilemma, what the hell are you waiting for? sorry to be so harsh, but these are children for gods sake. you are an adult, i dont care if you are not the responsible one for these two girls, do what you know you should be doing, dont wait for the other two so called adults. Take it from someone whom was abused as a child by another child. STOP SITTING ON YOUR HANDS and get the ball rolling asap. when it comes down to it what would you rather, report it and be wrong or not report it and find out down the line girl a was being subjected to god knows what. you know what the right thing is, please STOP delaying, stop asking for opinons, stop giving the adults time. Make the call, report it, do whatever you have to.

stealthsquiggle · 20/06/2008 11:08

I think the OP is at the school now:

suchAdilemma on Fri 20-Jun-08 01:10:15
Colditz, Girl B's mum and I are going to school later today. (crikey, it's Friday already, have been on the phone for hours.)

littlepinkpixie · 20/06/2008 11:10

This is clearly a child protection issue, and both the school and social services need to know about this ASAP.