parents whom do positive parenting - ie no time out, smacking, shouting etc...

[saywhat]

well, i never thought i would say this but please help me! I am tired of being the negative person in my childrens lives, i want to be a mum whom is understanding, can reason but can also be firm, without any times out, shouting or smacking. Its not how i have been brought up and i think i have always had the belief if you dont do these things you will end up with children whom are totally unruly, walk all over you etc...sorry, i know thats bad. But i dont think that anymore, i think that if i keep bringing them up in a shouty, no patience, negative manner, i will end up with insecure children!

I am also so tired of feeling guilty in the evenings, once i have had a break from them, and thinking to myself, you shoudnt have done this, that and the other, they are just babies! Bit of history, my 2 children are 3 years and 2 years.

so good positive parents out there, tell me how to get started, how do i go from being moany mummy to a more loving natured mummy?

Thanks franch, my third baby i am going it alone, no manual for this one, i am hoping it will build my confidence as a mum. I am going to have a look for both those books in borders on saturday, hubs has promised to take me. and i wont be so hard on myself if you dont, what do you say

Thanks saywhat - I will stick around on this thread as there's a lot of wisdom here - positive parenting is not easy, certainly not for me as I seem to have low reserves of patience (especially when tired or premenstrual) but it is the right route I feel, and we should support each other

Hi. I am reading a fantastic book called "The power of positive parenting", by Dr. Glenn Latham.
I cannot recommend it enough.

It is brilliant brilliant brilliant. I am half way through it, but in just a couple of weeks DS is just amazing. I am finding this whole parenting thing so rewarding I cannot tell you.

I don't have time right now to go through all the details, but the motto of the book is the following:

"Research has shown that the most effective way to reduce problem behaviour in children is to strengthen desirable behaviour through positive reinforcement rather than trying to weaken undesirable behaviour using aversive or negative processes."

saywhat, I agree with what everyone is saying about the age of your DC's.
My eldest is 7, and I expect more from both her and me in our relationship but my middle child is three and the answer to why he does things that may get my back up sometimes is simply "because he is three!!!"

Also I recall somewhere on the thread someone (i think it was you) talking about the girls saying sorry, it is something that we as parents can do too. It's ok to let them know we are fallible and that we handled something wrong.
There are times I have yelled at one of my DC's only to calm down and think 'WTF was I doing?', I will apologise to them, e4xplain that I'm sorry I shouted, I was angry, and that though it is fine for me to be angry it is not right for me to shout at them and I should've spoken to them with more respect.
I have been told that apologising to children, or admitting you're in the wrong is a sign of weakness but I don't believe that at all. Lead by example, if you are honest, respectful and human, so will they be.

BTW, It sounds like you're doing great already, just after a few pointers, which we all need at times.

definately, i am also he same regarding patience, i have always had very very little and been easily irritated, but i am positive that can be worked on! I think i thought when having children that the moment i gave birth i would turn into this wonderful, green, natural mother, and instead i found i was still actually me, just me with a baby!

I have had two yeas as such of the negative parenting and not been very impressed with the results, so i very much also feel positive parenting is the next step, but i have a feeling there is going to be many ups and downs on the way.

The few times i have tried being more positive before, its resulted in my eldest realising mummy is being different, more tolerant, and thinking...wahey lets see what i can get away with! I think getting through that stage of adjustment is going to be the hard part, but i am certain its going to be very worth it.

WRT "and that though it is fine for me to be angry it is not right for me to shout at them and I should've spoken to them with more respect." this line, it's something else I think is important in raising children, allowing them to have feelings of anger and jealousy and annoyance etc, accept it, let them know it's ok, having those feelings is normal, how you deal with them is what counts.

i was in the middle of a long winded post there when my laptop randomly shut down! how odd.

I am quite good at saying sorry to my children, but i think there is room for it more often. I have also allowed them to show anger, though if its getting out of hand, i will ask them to go to their room to continue and will say to them, i understand that you feel angry, but this needs to be done (say brushing teeth!) but again all this is on good days and the negative days are SOO much more than good days just now.

SW, I can't really keep up with this thread (I'm at work ) but I recommended the book because you said it was the children fighting amongst themselves that made you lose it with them.

I found it v helpful. It explains how to help the DCs deal with their disputes and how to avoid inadvertently encouraging any rivalry.

My DCs are just 5 and 3.6 and as they get older, things are getting so much easier. Hang in there!

Firstly, I think getting enough sleep and eating well is of vital importance to you all.
As is getting out at least once a day for some fresh air.
As you are pregnent, set aside time in the dday to have a cup of tea/put your feet up for half an hour.
You could have half an hour of TV for them, or drawing whilst you sit with them etc.

Behaviuor wise I cannot stress enough that rewarding and praising good behaviour really helps, and also staying calm , low voice, undivided attention.
I think boundaries are always important, and also seeing threats through ie taking something away if they cannot share etc.
Lots of praise and cuddling, take an genuine interest in them and make them laugh now and then!
Personally, I think the key is to remind yourself that childhood is so fleeting, they grow up so quickly, just enjoy it and make them your priority.
Good luck, you sound like a very caring mummy to me (just a bit tired)

There is much I identify with in your posts Saywhat. I have a 3 and 2 yo and i am 22 weeks pg.

My Mum also suffered from depression (still does) and this made our childhood difficult though she was not so ill that we were removed.

I have good and bad days re parenting - being tired and hormonal at the moment mean there are more difficult days than I would like but I have a policy of trying to apologise and explain to my son (dd is too young to understand) that Mummy is 'tired' or 'grumpy' and so if I lose it with him I can at least try and help him understand that grown-ups are not always reasonable. I do praise alot and I kick the kids into the Garden to wreck havoc - which is a life saver.

ds going to pre-school is fab as he loves it and i get time with dd only. Getting out with the kids most days is also essential for sanity.

Loads of good advice here - try to enjoy this time and good luck for October for you and me!!

i have a garden too and try to spend time out in at least once or twice a day, it can be a life saver! my 2 year old also sleeps 2 hours still between 1-3 a day, and then 7-7 at night. My eldest has quiet time then with a video and a lie down, then some one on one time with me.

I am more tired now in this stage of pregnancy, with baby moving about a lot more i am not sleeping well, and it is easy to let things build up on me, then get very stressed!

My eldest starts preschool in august, and i know she will love it, but in some ways i almost wish it was my youngest going so i could have more time with my eldest.

For the eating well, i have a new slowcooker that i have been cooking wonderful meals in and much to my delight the girls are loving them, today they had venison chilli concarne, yesterday it was venison stew and the day before that it was pork and apple casserole! I havent got it on today though as i couldnt drag myself out the house to get the ingredients

bigmouth, my mum had depression but i also think there is bi polar there or even schizophrenia. Her mum killed herself from that. I did meet my mum when i was about 8, but she is not part of my life now. Its a long and not very nice story.

Message withdrawn

Saywhat, this is creepy
Came on mn this morning feeling very, very low after an awful afternoon yesterday with dds who are 3 and 1. I work four days and Weds is my only day with them and I managed to mess it up, yelling at dd1 continually all afternoon, mainly because she constantly attacks her sister under the pretence of giving her cuddles and because then she was messing around with her food, chewing carrots but then spitting them out, throwing stuff on the floor
To hijack briefly the problem I have is dd2 is a tough one and always has been - I've posted about her on here several times. She's very clingy and still quite often won't let me put her down so I can't even bloody pee without her sitting on my knee and the only way I can make her and her sister's supper is with her screaming blue murder on the floor. Then, if she is in a mood when she's happy to potter on the floor, dd1 comes along and decides to ride her like a horse/prod her/ "help" her walk, and she understandably goes mental. Even though my frustrations are really with the baby I tend to take it out on the toddler because when I yell at her she understands.
I am not proud of this
I keep telling myself anyone would be stressed with a baby who's cried more or less non-stop for a year now but I still feel awful. Like you, I adore my dds but I am very conscious I am nothing like the parent I'd hoped to be at the moment. One minute we're all having a nice time the next it descends into me virtually combusting with rage - and achieving nothing except upsetting me and them
Sorry for the hijack but I came on to post something similar myself and already feel a bit better knowing somebody else is going through the same thing iyswim. Really good luck to you and I'll watch the fab advice of other mnetters with interest

thanks pitch i will look out for that also

Mrsshackleton, i was lucky with my dd2, she was a really good natured baby, god knows how i would have coped with a baby more inclinded to lots of crying and discontentment. I know where you are coming from when you tend to direct more things at the elder because you feel she is more likely to understand, i do that a lot with my eldest too. Then in the evenings i sit and question myself, does she actually understand? DO i just pretend she does to justify having a go for very little reason? with three year olds it can be hard to know what they do understand and what they pretend to understand. I am not proud of it either, hence another reason for the post on here!

I do feel like i have had shed loads of good advice and this afternoon was a nice improvement, i managed to not shout once, and still keep some sort of control, the pretending someone is filming you really works for me. I hope you might have got some too. I think its a very hard thing to admit to, but hopefully its the beginning of happier times ahead.

3 rules

No hurt to others
No hurt to yourself
No harm to possessions

Use 'I feel angry/sad etc when you hit me/pinch yourself etc. I do not like it, I want it to stop' statements. Don't shout, but put your anger into your voice (raised slightly...sometimes mine does rise a bit too much ) and I make eye contact and try to keep it. If my little imp is hitting me, I will firmly hold her arms and stop her hitting me...very important to stop the behaviour.

If throwing for example is a problem, take the toys away for a half hour/hour.

Praise whatever good behaviour there is 'I really like it when you help your sister/brother'

Most of all, go easy on yourself! If you get stressed about not doing great...you will then start getting irritable...then before you know it your yelling again!

And just want to say....GOOD FOR YOU!!

best of luck with it all and don't give up!

Such brilliant and kind advice on here for you, Saywhat.
Just wanted to add my support and say that when I feel I'm getting too shouty with mine, I just try and give myself another chance, keep trying to get it right, etc and not write off a whole day just cos I got cross.
But it was hard when I was pregnant (21 month gap). Hugely hormonal, knackered all the time. There's a lot to be said for giving yourself a break - whatever it takes - ready meals, sod the housework, kids watching a bit of telly. If you're trying to be a happy calm mum, you will get there, but you wouldn't be human if it didn't get to you.

I second the Alfie Kohn recommendation. Haven't read the other books recommended.

I also love Deborah Jackson's book oh what's it called - not the Three in a Bed one, the one about "LEtting Go as Children Grow" (was that the title? Or the subtitle?)

Anyway....

Really helpful for that transition into seeing one's children as human beings doing their own thing with guidance from parents rather than as entities to be controlled into doing what the parents want them to do all the time. She writes in a really friendly way, Deborah Jackson.

And the biggest advice I can offer is the zen approach ( actually, there is a book called Mindful PArenting by Jon and something Kabat Zinn which is helpful though somewhat smug) - being fully there and present with our children whenever possible. Not judging, not commenting, not validating, just being with and accepting. Just watching quietly and appreciating as they get on with being themselves. Like the way to appreciate a flower or a tree is to take time just to look at it, accepting it for what it is and not demanding that it be a butterfly instead. In that situation, it is much much easier to offer help where needed and offer advice where it will be welcomed - "discipline" isn't really relevant, because you're there and engaged and part of it.

Those books sound great, onward - is this the zen one?

Ha!!! Impressive tracking down there franch from my addled description.

Yep, that's it.

Remember, I warned you that it's smug. But there's a good basic idea underlying it.

Hey, if you want more ideas, you could always read my blog! [shameless plug] here

Ooh onward I like your blog. And I love this thread.

The first few paragraphs of your homepage reminded me of another great book: Playful Parenting

Hi saywhat it looks like you've had some excellent advice on here and you sound like an angel, looking after 2 under 5s, I've only got one and it's tough.

I haven't read all the thread but I noticed near the beginning you dercribe markedly fluctuating mood and your dr is looking into the possibility of bi-polar. I too am very labile mood wise and you can be what's called "cyclothymic" without being full bi-polar. I always urge caution with that diagnosis because in it's pure form it's extremely dramatic and disabling, delusions, hallucinations etc. and mad mad hehaviour (ordering all the argos catalogues to be delivered to you, going out in your underwear and high heels etc. shaving your eyebrows off). I'm just aware that it's used very freely these days and certain celebrities have coined it when it fact their difficulties may well be attributed to an affective/interpesonal problem but not bi-polar.

Sorry to go on I just thought it important that you know I would not want you to be labelled or medicated unneccessarily.

What an amazing thread this is. Saywhat, thank you so much for having the courage to start this and be so honest. I identify with you so much. I've got a 3.5 year old dd1, a 2 year old ds and a 12 week old dd2. I usually have help in the form of au pairs which does make a huge difference to how I am with dcs, but have been on my own for the last 8 weeks or so. I hate it that I'm tired all the time (would help to go to bed earlier and not stay up on MN!!) and end up really shouting at them, and having no patience and flipping. It is just SO great to read this and see that once again I am not the only person to behave badly and feel horrendous about it. I know that I'm a great mother really but I do feel so guilty about shouting and being mean to them when I know it's ultimately about how I'm feeling about me iyswim. For example I shout at one of them for doing something "naughty" but really I can trace the anger I feel back to feeling angry at me for not getting ready early enough, being organised etc etc. If I'm not feeling positive about myself I can end up taking it out on them. I have just ordered a couple of the books recommended here. I don't know that I can offer any advice but there has been some really fantastic advice from other people here. Just wanted to say thank you and good luck . I think that self awareness is a really important part of winning the battle otherwise how can you change.

Good point, peacelily - my brother is bipolar and I can add: believing you're Jesus and that the whole world is plotting to kill you; graffiti-ing your own house; smashing up furniture; etc etc ...

I hope you get the help you need.