Gina Ford yay or nay?

[Tracy551162]

Just finished reading the Gina Ford Comtented Little Baby book and have to say that everything she says is very logical and makes full sense. She writes and explains everyhting in a very structured way and I found it is very easy to follow.

I am now looking at The Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg and I find that book so unstructured and random, but so far she is saying the same as Gina Ford bar the odd bit here and there.

I think I am going to try with the Gina Ford method, but obviously adapting for my and my baby's own needs, and without getting in a flap if I get behind schedule.

Has ayone else read these books or tried to work by them with their babies? Am I completely mad even mentioneing the name Gina Ford? I've had a lot of negative reactions from friends, who say she's a baby nazi - most of them haven't even read the book though.

Thanks.

Nay from me too. When I was a very new mum I felt that the CLBB made me feel like a failure when DD wouldn't adapt to the routines, even loosely. I worried far too much about what I "should" be doing. I still feel bad about dithering over whether or not to pick up DD when she cried.

Thank God for my best mate and some family that encouraged me and helped me realise that we would eventually find our own rhythm and routine.

I'm intrigued by something on these types of threads - those us who follow, for example, GF, state how it works for US, and that we are happy with it. We also say it doesn't work for everyone, and you have to tailor it to your own baby, and your own needs.

Those who don't, tell us that we are damaging our babies, and that it is a bad thing.

I do things my way, with a degree of prescription, that has fitted one child entirely, and another to a degree. I don't care of others do things another way.

Then I smile quietly, when I hear their tales of broken nights, and terrible bedtimes, over tired babies. perhaps. just perhaps a routine might help them. perhaps not. but it might be worth a try.

shrinking, the 'tailor it to your own baby' approach is not what is recommended in the GF books or on her website. On the contrary, when parents say the approach isn't working, she is quite clear - they are not following it strictly enough.

No one has said that someone following GF 'their way' by 'tailoring' it or adapting it, will damage their babies...but the schedules and strictures laid out in the books are inconsistent with what we understand to be infant needs.

I find your smug admission that you 'smile quietly' when other people confess to having a hard time with parenting to be faintly distasteful.

I do agree with tiktok's last post.

The last thing I needed to hear when DD was a newborn was that I was not strict enough, and that I must be doing something wrong.

Offline, when I'm having a hard time (as I'm sure most parents do from time to time!) I have to remember that there are people like my sister, who's never used the Internet nor a baby book/routine and her son was and is an excellent sleeper.

My beef with CLBB et al are the suggestion that one size fits all... to have a happy baby that sleeps through the night, you must do X. My experience is that is simply not a universal truth. DD slept from 9am until 6am without any effort from me when she was 9 weeks old. That went out of the window when she was 5 months old, lol

I read Babywise, GF as well as The Baby Whisperer. Found Babywise and Baby Whisperer a bit wishy washy though there were some good ideas. But I do like the Baby Whisperer programme and found some of her tips useful... For example, she suggested that parents stop the jiggling baby thing and when putting them down, to pat them gently on their front instead to stop overstimulating the baby. I found that this particular method worked for me!

GF was the first book I read and I basically threw it down thinking you must be mad to follow this. HOWEVER, I picked it up again and read it in more detail and she does make sense to me. I still think her routine is completely mad in how strict it is but I use her sleep/nap timings for my LO and it seems to have help settled him in the last week or so. I don't stress about it if the timings go a bit haywire now and then but for a first-time mum, I actually found her 'prescriptive' methods quite useful! I am not worried about my LO sleeping through the night. He is a good little sleeper as it is. But just found that using some of her timing guidelines help me in dealing with my LO!

Yay and nay. Depends mostly on mum, a little on child.
Some mums like to go with the flow, some like to be baby-led, others would go mad without a sense of routine. Are you a laidback kind of person Tracey? Or do you like to plan ahead? If it's the latter, I'd recommend you get your baby into some kind of routine, even if it's not GF's CCLB.

I do think some very unsettled babies have benefited from being put into a CCLB or similar routine and it has helped their mothers regain some sense of control and order in their days, and nights.

However, some babies are angels and don't need "putting" into routines and do find their own way (as my DS1 did, sleeping from 7am to 7pm at 9 weeks). However, some (like my DS2 are not so good at finding their own way, and could do with a little guidance/routine. Unless you're happy to be waking in the night when they're getting close to a year.

You've got to do what suits YOU. Don't be made to feel you're doing anything "wrong" - just because it's not what the other mum/mums do. Whatever feels right for you. Happy mum is the best you can do for your baby. Good luck!

My babies sleep perfectly well, eat really well and have regular naps- they have regular bedtimes and meal times. The GF way is not the only routine in the world. MY babies DID actually develop a routine by themselves, all I did was show them the difference between day and night. It is not rocket science. Perhaps if the GF advocates had the same confidence in their own abilities as they have in GF, they could have saved themselves the cost of the book and got a decent work of fiction instead.

"However, some babies are angels and don't need "putting" into routines and do find their own way (as my DS1 did, sleeping from 7am to 7pm at 9 weeks). However, some (like my DS2 are not so good at finding their own way, and could do with a little guidance/routine. Unless you're happy to be waking in the night when they're getting close to a year."

There is nothing natural or normal about a baby that sleeps 12 hours straight at an early age. There is everything natural and normal about a baby that still wakes sometimes when they are a year or older.

I refer you to Martin Samuel Common sense in a mad world!!

Monkies

DS slept through at 12 weeks or so, DD at 11 months. She would just want a feed at 2ish then go back to sleep. No big deal. We all feel really nervous and overwhelmed at first- I just think if you only think things went well because you followed a book, then it doesn't do much for gaining your own confidence as a parent.IMO.

I can only tell you that GF's approach is discouraged for babies who are adopted as its the opposite of what they need. Tbh that would make me sceptical about whther its a good thing for any child.

I like routine - it kept me sane when DS was little but my routine just meant - same naptime and bedtime everyday, same wind down routine before bed, same mealtimes everyday.

Couldn;t do contolled crying as DS was adopted and its strongly discouraged if you are trying to promote attachment and anyway I was far too muchof a wuss to do it. As he got older (now 2.4) I did learn to distinguish a "tired and ready to sleep" cry from a "I'm unhappy for some reason" cry and will leave the first for 5 minutes. Never leave the second - even if I don't go in, I always say something he can hear as a first resort so he knows I'm there.

but her potty training book was very helpful - even if I didn;t follow it it helped me prepare both DS and I for potty training.

The potty training book is great ! My DS1 has a developmental delay but GF describes so well what is needed in terms of understanding that it has given me the confidence to try again !

Tiktok - but you see, I find it distasteful that people tell me my children will havepoor relationships, and will have attachment problems as a result of eing ignored, or left to cry because I have followed GF.

Its a two way street.

People used to say to me that we couldn't have a 2nd child as good, and easy as DS. DD has been more tricky but she's great now.

Readng GF's book, and adapting it to your won needs is just what most people do with any child rearing book, anything, from the baby whisperer to penelope leach (which I also love actually). I can't imagine anyone follows it literally WORD for WORD.

Ah, which reminds me of a point I meant to raise about your earlier post - you said that her advice on b/f is not based on research. ok fair enough. I don't know. BUT are you saying it is BAD advice to suggest to new mums that they drink lots of water, and make sure they eat regularly when they are breast feeding? There maybe bits which are out of date, and do not have aresearch based quote beside them - BUT, lots of the stuff in her book is very sensible. Sometimes new mums need to be told to drink, and eat, and make sure that everything is with them when they are feeding.
Sometimes new mums need reminding to check nappy's if a baby wakes from sleep, sometimes they need reminding to do lots of things. I don't see her book as an absolute, I see it as a set of reminders.

best advice I was given - read lots, read widely, ask a lot of people what worked, add to the mix your knowledge of your own child and your instincts, and pick the bits that seem sane to you.
For us, cuddles, attachment, and Elizabeth Pantley worked perfectly, and suited our family and ds's temperament. Controlled crying on the other hand was absolutely not for us.

Trust your instincts.

I think it is not helpful referring to babies / children as 'good' 'easy'

kids are different with different needs which parents are meant to meet to the best of their ability

thats so true sfx - some people respond to a few hours with DS by saying nervously "ooh he's, umm busy isn't he". That is tiring and challenging in many ways but I have found ways of dealing with it and his reluctance to shut his eyes at the end of another exciting day. However he is a treasure in many ways and is often very compliance and happy to please despite his excess energy.

I got far less stressed at bedtime when I stopped trying to do what I thought we should do (eg him in bed alseep by 7.30) and went with what worked for us (in bed by 8pm and asleep around 8.30pm)

I found the no cry sleep solution you lend me worked well for me just because it kind of gave me "permission" to go with what worked for me.

On another matter - as mother to an adopted child I am very sceptical that leaving a child to cry at bedtime would result in attachment problems in an otherwise well bonded child unless you were taking it to a ridiculous degree over a sustained period. Most people who talk about "attachment" in this context have no idea what it really means.

sfxmum -yes sorry, it was a poor choice of words - and I agree I'm likely to get flamed for it!! But, I have to say, those were other people's words not mine!! they used them referring to mychildren though.

As Mums we also have different temperaments and different needs. I for one have never felt the need to be surrounded by freshly ironed piles of laundry - but I did feel the need to take my baby on the boat to Sweden and my toddler on the train to Berlin. Both my children learned to nap wherever they were. But I appreciate that these trips- which were essential to my emotional wellbeing- would have been complete nightmares to a Mum who needed something totally different. Whereas not being able to leave the house for more than 5 hours when my children were 9 months old would have made me feel like I was trapped in some particularly nasty dream.

As for getting the uninterrupted sleep, that's still only a dream, after 11 years: dd has chronic pain problems. You can't really deal with that through controlled crying. But you learn to roll with the punches.

Tracey - I do hope you're still reading this thread! I'm also a newbie but have had great help from other mumsnetters since I found this site.

Re GF - here is my experience as a pretty new mom (DD is 15 weeks now). I read GF and Baby Whisperer while pregnant and preferred the sound of BW.

DD was born with jaundice and was a really sleepy girl. We were told she should eat no more than 3 hours apart and for as long as she wanted. However, DD fell asleep after 2 or 3 minutes on the breast so "as long as she wants" clearly wasn't enough. I started using the GF timings for feeds just as some sort of guide as we had no idea how long she should feed. (In retrospect, I should have asked a bf counsellor for help at this point but I was clueless.)

Doing that, we started following the first routine. I found it helpful in some ways - eg sleep times during the day - but very restrictive in others - suggestions as to when I should eat, saying all sleeps bar one must be at home, how do you square that with real life?!

At 9 weeks we went out to South Africa to visit family and I left all the books behind (we're still here). Honestly, it's the best thing I've done. I've had to rely on what I think and not double check my instincts with a book. I think its also helped me to understand DD better and "translate" her various cries/noises.

DD is in a sort of a routine - wakes around the same time each day and has the same bath/boob/bed routine. She is not sleeping through but I don't think any book could make her. She is a little girl and, IMO, her tummy is just not big enough to make it through the night yet.

IMO my aunt hit the nail on the head when she said "ignore all those books, Hannah (my DD) hasn't read them".

Good luck with your baby when he/she arrives!

"Both my children learned to nap wherever they were" - out of interest Cory - how long did it take them to learn that? DS would always sleep in a pushchair/car etc until about 15 months at which time nothing would convince him to doze off anywhere except his cot. He has the most amazing ability to stay awake - once (when he was under 2yrs) was at a family party until about 9.30pm and didn't sleep even throughout a 90 min car drive home in the dark until we got home.

In any event napping at home hasn't been a huge problem for me - if we have to be away for longer than that then he just skips a nap and although he's grumpy, is still just about managable. Having spent our first month or so together dragging around frozen siberian kazakhstan, staying at home is bliss!

Ds was still napping in his buggy when he was 2- and shortly after that, he gave up regular naps altogether (though he would still fall asleep on a train or on his father's shoulders if he got tired and we happened to be out). His CM (two days a week) used the buggies for her mindees' naps so that stayed part of the routine until he stopped needing naps.

I can see how you relish a bit of time at home. My db was adopted too, and it did take time to get him used to everyday routines.

BW love your aunty!

Shrinking, you said, "I find it distasteful that people tell me my children will have poor relationships, and will have attachment problems as a result of being ignored, or left to cry because I have followed GF."

No one has said that to you here - what has been pointed out on this thread is that schedules and clocks and rigid adherence to routines is not consistent with responsive, flexible parenting.

GF certainly does not approve of people adapting her strategies or 'picking and mixing' from them....of course, in the real world, this is what many people do with books, and so despite the books, they end up being responsive, attached (in the technical sense) parents with contented children. It's odd that the book and the author take the credit for the happy results of these parents' own sensible, loving and flexible child-raising.

"I can't imagine anyone follows it literally WORD for WORD." I can tell you this is what some people try to do, and as a breastfeeding counsellor I hear from many tearful, exhausted and demoralised parents who are failing to follow whatever routine they have read about/heard about.

"BUT are you saying it is BAD advice to suggest to new mums that they drink lots of water, and make sure they eat regularly when they are breast feeding?"

I think it's bad advice to tell mothers they 'must' do this in order for breastfeeding to succeed. It's incorrect and misleading. Mothers only need to drink to thirst, for their own comfort.

"Sometimes new mums need reminding to check nappy's if a baby wakes from sleep" - I agree, reminders might be helpful for all sorts of things. I don't object to reminders. I object to rigid instructions on anything beyond safety issues.

Nappy reminders and little tips on settling your baby can be found in your free Birth to Five book.

Good point, pinky

I do find it strange that people defend a book and a method and then are at pains to say they didn't really 'follow' it at all, but took it as a series of reminders which they adapted to their own perceptions of their kids' needs.

Seems to me to reflect a fundamental lack of confidence in themselves and a puzzling willingness to credit someone who has never met them or their children, and whose 'wisdom' they are deliberately not following to the letter!