Is there a SALT on here who can tell me how delayed this is?

[Kewcumber]

DS aged 2yrs 4 months, says single syllable words - some very clearly (more, no, yeth, cat) some very indistinct (George = goosh, thomas = joosh), won't use two syllables at all even with words that he did previously eg Mummy has deteriorated into (my), nanny = ny. Uses "eee" in place of "oooo" eg says pee when he means poo, bee instead of boo etc.

Social worker wants me to ask for SALT now as she says in her experience this pattern of speech is not normal.

Does someone have experience of how abnormal/delayed this is?

you need Moondog.

DD was late to talk ( 2.6 really before she started to actually talk in sentences... and even now, at 2.9 i still need to transalate for people on occasion ) GP told me that 2.6 was a critical age for determining whether speech delay or 'just' immature.. but DD literally went from not talking to talking in a week. just before her SALT appointment finally came through . we had been very concerned. she talked in her own language for a while and whilst she could understand things, seemed unable or unwilling to verbalise for a loooooong time.

moondog is god of SALT . but...

You do have other issues that could have impacted on ds' speech:

he was born premature wasn't he? (I don't remember how premature but I do remember you mentioning it in the past with reference to other delays he might have).
Plus for his first year English wasn't his first language, so in terms of learning he's already at that disadvantage.

But moondog will know better - worth putting a call out for her.

also, it's still worth getting a referral, because these things take time, so better to have an early referral than to wait and have ds at greater disadvantage if there is a problem that can be addressed sooner, iykwim?

yes he is a 26 weeker and first year hearing only Russian but SW is quite experienced and says this kind of speech pattern is unusual even with that background and says more commonly children just fail to speek at all until quite late.

I'm not convinced either way yet, would like to hear a professionals opinion about whether its unusual and whether its worth getting a referral or if too early at this stage.

I need to go and stalk moondog don't I

funnily enough he can say "choc choc" quite clearly

i would ask for a referral, unless you are going to go private, i waited 5 months for NHS appointment with SALT.

how much would a private SALt assessemtn cost (not really considering it but...)

we found a private SALT who charged £25 per session,but we did not go as DD started speaking, we are in the north west though, might be more down south

I would go for a referral too. Dd had her initial assessment, was put on the list and waited for 13 months for an appointment to come through. Far better to turn them down at a later date than wait longer than you need to.

Also I always bang on about getting hearing checked as glue ear comes and goes but can have a big impact on speech development IME (as a Mum with a dd who had speech delay and started school on the SEN list all due to glue ear)

bump in case Moondog (or other SALt) is around this evening.

I know there is a huge shortage of SALTs (or at least funding for them) in the SE, so you might want to ask for a referral anyway. You can always cancel if he suddenly improves.

FWIW, I think it's normal for children to go back and forth a bit with speech - do something, then do it wrong/not at all, then master it. W-curve? (I may be talking bollocks though, so go to an expert)

bumping for moondog.

I do agree re referral, my cousin had to wait 9 months for her ds to be referred. 9 months isn't as long when you're two as it is when you're three and school is looming.

Have you watched any of the Something Special programmes with him, Kew? DS2 loves these and has learned loads of language from them. My signing is getting quite good, too .

Didn't DS pass a load of medical tests quite recently, with flying colours? Did they include a hearing test?

I have a brilliant book about encouraging kids to speak, if you'd like it - It takes two to talk.

Hope you find Moondog soon - good luck stalking.

yes DS loves Someting Special but I can;t say I think he's learning any language from it. Yes he did well on his developmental assesment but it didnt include a hearing test other than obvious questions (does he look up when there is a noise kind of thing)

how is his understanding kc? This could determine whether its communication based? Fwiw dd had superb understanding but zero speech until age 3. But her communication was fab. She made it known.
When she did start talking it was pronounced. In such a way that meant only those closest or listening very hard, understood her.
She is 5 and no probs now.
def worth seeking out assessments as now is a good age to start therapy if he needs it. I am not sure how much exposure to language he got before he was home with you, but the difficulties with bilingual children and slower language could possibly apply?
he sounds pretty great btw

I think his understanding is good but when sw asked if he could follow complex instructions (eg pick up the book and put it on the table) I realised that I didnt actually know, I also realised that I do a lot of pointing when I give him instructions so I'm not actually sure whethehr he understands what I say or is guessing pretty well from my actions. I need to look out for that a bit and stop with the pointing so much and see if he understands as well.

PS he is marvellous!

giving them choices is good. If younwoukd normally say
would you like a banana?
instead say
would you like. Banana or an apple?
or jammy dodger or Jaffa cake
fruit shoot or coke
this frustrated dd but it did make her try her voice! Instead of relying on pointing or dragging me along...

giving choices is good. If you would normally say
would you like a banana?
instead say
would you like. Banana or an apple?
or jammy dodger or Jaffa cake
fruit shoot or coke
this frustrated dd but it did make her try her voice! Instead of relying on pointing or dragging me along...

Hi Kewcumber, my DS (now 4.8) has delayed speech and I was referred through my HV when he was around 2.6. As a baby he never attempted to make sounds (ONLY CRIED)and despite our best efforts he just wasn't interested. He was seen by SALT within a few months and ever since goes on a regular basis. He goes for half an hour every week, then after six weeks gets a few months off, he is reviewed again and we start the process over.

Before we had any kind of SALT we had to take DS for a hearing test to determine whether or not he was having problems hearing what we were saying and therefore when he tried to copy the sound it was distorted. It turns out that his hearing was perfect and that it was delayed speech.

I'm not sure if this is any help, just wanted to let you know that I have found our SALT (Wendy - DS adores her)has been fantastic.

Kew - private SALT assessment likely to cost in region of £100 to £150. Including program of work for you to follow with him. I really don't see why you shouldn't go with SW concerns and get a referral. SALT appointments are not scary or intrusive, the worst that can happen is that a child who needs help doesn't get it, not that a child who is developing normally gets told all is well, bog off and go home. As others have pointed out, NHS waiting lists can be up to a year for SALT, so if there may be an issue, best to get on asap.

When my DS was your DS's age I started to be concerned about his speech - he had plenty of single words, but seemed to be making very little progress. I got fobbed off until he was 3 (HV and GP refused to refer). He then turned out to have severely delayed speech and understanding . A year on, his expressive speech is much better (but still behind) but his understanding is still a worry. So it can be a real danger that children slip through the net at your DS's age.

Excellent website here

Thanks everyone - think I am going to ask HV to evaluate his speech and see what I think based on what she says.

He talks quite a lot and ironically seems to be talking even more since last Friday when the SW visited. My concern is more that his progress is not what I would expect and that he has lost some two syllable words and now only says one syllable words, although to counter that his vocabulary of single syllable words is improving.

I do offer him choices when I remember and you're right Piffle that does help. I have also started just this week saying to him "I'm sorry I don't understand you, can you say that again more clearly" rather than guessing what he's saying. Although frustrating I think I am beginning to see a slight improvement in him making an effort to say things more clearly.

I also would ask about hearing checks if this hasn't already been ruled out. Like CarGirl my ds had glue ear and this together with cleft palate and jaw problems led to speech delay. He eventually ended up with some quite complex hearing tests the last of which was done under anaesthetic. Having said that they did make a complete hash of the whole thing. I'm convinced they got my ds's and the boy in the next bed's results mixed up. His Mum was convinced that her ds couldn't hear while I was fairly sure mine could but not sure how well. His results were normal while I was told my ds was profoundly deaf. While the hearing aid technician was visiting to repair my ds's hearing aids (he was always taking them out and pulling them apart. In fact he would only wear them if they were switched off!) the phone rang. Ds answered and knew it was my mum, he wasn't wearing his hearing aids at the time Chap said if he was as deaf as the results showed he shouldn't be able to hear the phone ring let alone know it was his grandma on the other end!! He left taking the hearing aids with him. Ds probably found wearing them extremely uncomfortable as he wasn't deaf at all. His speech delay was caused by a combination of things including glue ear. He is now 19 and the clarity of his speech is still not brilliant. Having gone through the awkward teenage years when he wouldn't entertain any sort of speech therapy and just wanted them to leave him alone he has now asked himself to be referred back for ST. For my ds they wasted the early years when perhaps they could have done more for his speech by misdiagnosing him as deaf and delaying the repair of his cleft until he was 18 months because of poor weight gain. The fact that he had started to learn speech with a cleft palate made him make sounds in the wrong way and all this had to be unlearnt and started again..the unlearning proved the biggest hurdle imo. I think the earlier a potential problem can be diagnosed and treated the better the long term outcome. I'm sure if my ds's problems had been diagnosed correctly earlier his speech wouldn't be the problem it has been and still is.