At what age are kids expected to be completely independant in the toilet? How strict are schools in the UK about this?

[TinySocks]

We don't live in the UK but would like DS to go to an english school here.
The school have told us that they have a very strict policy whereby all children must be potty trained and completely independant before being accepted in school. Which means they have to pull their pants down/up, clean themselves, wash hands without any help at all.
DS will be 3.8 yrs in september (he would have gone in to the early years section). I really need to know if this is the norm in the UK?
Do all schools in the UK expect small children to have such high standards of independance?
At what age were your children able to do this?

DD1 was going to the loo on her own eg pulling pants etc up and down,flushing the loo and washing her own hands by 3 iirc.

She had to be able to do that by the time she went to nursery.

In the UK a nursery cannot legally insist that a child is completely toilet trained as a condition of attendance. I have been helping in a nursery class of a school (3 and 4 year olds) and some kids require some help. By reception (4/5 years old) it is expected that they can use the toilet but some of the younger kids still require a bit of help initially.

HTH

We taught ds to do this by 3.10yrs as he went to school 2 weeks after turning 4 so we knew he would have to do it - he wasnt the most able of children but he coped OK. No2 child informed me that it was her poo and she would wipe - at about the same age. I think by september your ds might surprise you as to how receptive he is.....and if not - the posters above seem to know what they're talking about!

My daughter can just about manage - she's 3.4 - at home, and can manage at school where they have tiny loos - but she never does a poo at school (half days).

IME lots of children have rather dirty bottoms when they get back from school

DS started at nursery when he was 3 and they got help in the toilet if they needed it.

When he went into reception at 4 they were pretty much on their own. Help if they desperately needed it but not generally.

I remember when DS was in reception he told me at home one day that he could wipe his bum now "because Kitty taught me". She is one of the girls in his class!

I am really surprised, from what you write it seems that most kids at 3-4 can actually do this.
I should add that my DS has a developmental delay, so I don't think he will be able to be so independant by september. I don't even know if he will be able to be so independant by september next year, with him it is very difficult to predict how quickly he will learn something.
Buda, it gather from your comment that it is not a strict condition to be totally independant when starting reception, right?
So in other words teachers are allowed to help kids in the toilet if needed?

Mainstream state schools cannot legally refuse to take a child just because he/she is not toilet trained. Admitally schools don't like toilet accidents, but they can't actually exclude the child.

If I was you, I would ditch the pull ups and just have your son in pants regardless of the mess. I toilet trained my son round Easter. I gave him a small piece of Easter Egg every time he did a poo or a wee in the toilet. He had the hang off it in days. I got him off the chocolate by a "don't offer, don't refuse" approach.

It is a long time until september. I am sure that in six months time your child will be completely different.

My son was 3 years and 3 months when he was toilet trained and about four year olds by the time he had got the hang of wiping his bottom and flushing the toilet. Even at the age of six he occassionally comes home with a dirty bottom, or worst still gets poo on his fingers when he tries to wipe his bottom.

Some schools may be awkward about this but it's against UK disability discrimination legislation to say kids can't go to state nursery/playgroup because they aren't fully toilet trained.

My son is 4.7 and still is rubbish at wiping his own bottom. If he does a poo at school he generally has skidmarks.

I also have to buy him elasticated trousers so he can pull them up and down by himself.

TinySocks - I am not actually in UK - am in Budapest and DS goes to a British private school here. So it's prob a bit different to UK state schools.

Sorry tinysocks, I didn't see your last post. My son's reception class had a little girl in nappies, because of developmental delay. The little girl had a statement and extra help. She has fragile X syndrome so has quite major learning difficulties.

What sort of developmental delays does your child had? Have you asked your paediatrian for suggestions?

My son had problems learning to speak due to deafness. To help him get the idea of toilet training I got him a doll that wees. We played game of pretending to potty train dolly.

I also read this book with him.

www.amazon.co.uk/Toilet-Learning-Picture-Technique-Children/dp/0316542377/ref=pd_bbs_ sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206090417&sr=8-1

Have you looked at other schools in the area that you are planning to live. Some schools are better at dealing with children with special needs than others.

It is one of those like-to-haves for Reception entry age so between 4&5. In practice many will be fine earlier while at preschool/nursery, pretty much by default since staff are not supposed to help directly.

Yes under the Disability Discrimination Act schools can no longer refuse children entrance on the grounds of not being toilet trained. Our school is now employing carers to change nursery children who need it.

sorry about quoting the DDA at you yet again TInySocks, misunderstood your OP and thought you were thinking of moving back to uk

ReallyTired, thanks for that link, I will definitely get that book. Regarding his needs, my son has a brain atrophy (I hate using that word because it sounds like his brain is completely useless which it is not the case). So I am sure he will do everything every other child does, but he takes his time for everything and his speech is signifacantly delayed.
He is saying single words, doesn't speak in sentences yet, but he understands everything. Has motor skills problems.
He understands what potty training is all about. The other day he put a doll in the potty and made the running water noise!! Yesterday I asked him "Ds, do we poo on the floor?" He answered "no", then, just to make sure he understood the question I asked "Do we poo in the toilet?", and his answer was "YES". I am going to persist with the potty training, I am just really sad that he won't be able to start school in september.