We are at the end of our tether...

[DettaJnr]

DS (almost 7 yrs) is becoming very difficult to handle. He has to be right ALL of the time and has to be first.

For example, at football yesterday when the other team scored their first goal he insisted that it wasn't a goal. He went on to disagree with every decision the referee made and started to have a go at his team mates telling them they were stupid and rubbish. According to DH he was uncontrolable (I wasn't there).

Initially we have decided that he won't be going to football next week.

What would you do?

I think that's enough Detta. If he behaved objectionably it's right enough that he misses the chance the next week and it's a natural and suitable consequence.

I think use the time to just talk when you can in a relaxed way about ways that he could deal better with his frustration - not taking it out on others and calling them stupid, etc. I think it's to do with giving him a little bit of assertiveness training! He has the right to express an opinion but not to be rude. Maybe think of a few things he could say that are assertive and talk with him about why it's better to be assertive rather than aggressive.

Don't be too down on him. He's only six and boys often DO have this really powerful urge to compete etc. He's young and needs time to mature, and practice at dealing with his feelings.

So I think don't get any more punitive than you have, just talk loads in a non-pressuring way, not "we've got to do something about this" but "How did you feel when....." etc and "What could you say next time?"

There does seem to be something that happens to boys at about 6/7 - they can get v concerned with status and that often comes out with competitiveness. Ds1 has a friend who is 7.5 who has been the loveliest boy (noisy but great ) who is currently going through a v tedious "I'm the winner" phase - even in games that are not really about winning, he will invent rules to make it seem that he has won. He reduced ds1 (just 7) to tears last week by calling him an idiot and a crybaby. Charming. However, ds1, of course, also has his moments - if something doesn't go right for him he has a total meltdown. But both these boys are genuinely v sweet and I have to keep reminding myself of that when they are being PIAs. It's def worse in groups, and I know what you mean about football - I would make it clear to him that he cannot behave in a way that spoils it for other kids and take him out of the game and straight home if he does it again. I think they are old enough now to understand the consequences of their actions.

Have you read Raising Boys by Steve Biddulph? I don't agree with all of it, but he has some v interesting stuff to say about the change that takes place around 6/7 in boys. My MIL, who had 4 boys all with different personalities, say it is spot on.

I second having a look at 'Raising Boys' - it's brilliant.

Thanks for your replies.

Wilbur, I have heard of the book but not read it. I shall see if I can pick up a copy in the library.

I have three older brothers and understand DS to a certain extent. I know boys are boisterous etc and competitive but this seems to be a little more than that.

My DH is the eldest of two and his sibling has Downs Syndrome so really doesn't understand DS. There is a lot of head butting between DH and DS. DH's father was very strict and was NEVER questioned...

We have reasoned with him and explained the difference between being rude and expressing your opinion and others feelings. He understands it all but is very focussed on himself.

Thanks again for your replies.

Raising Boys talks about 6/7 as being the age when boys start to look to their dad for guidance and when mothers need their dh/dp's support even more than during the baby years. Sounds like your dh needs to work out his relationship with ds, if ds is trying to impress him or win his approval, he may be acting up because dh is being tough on him.

I think a lot of people will recognise that 'locking horns' thing between dads and boys; my DH is one the most incredibly laid back, calm people I know and even he does this getting locked in thing with ds; boys need the chance to save face and will face eachother down till the cows come home.

The other day ds had dropped some rubbish on the floor deliberately so DH firmly told him to pick it up, and ds immediately said no - DH literally stood there, keeping on about picking it up. I said to DH to come away, as DS knew what needed to be done and would do it as soon as the 'facing down' element was removed.

DH walked away and DS duly picked up the rubbish. Boys really don't respond well to that locking horns thing - they need to have the chance to save their dignity etc - so I think my point is you may need to encourage your DH to be the adult and be the one to walk away from these situations!

That makes so much sense. Because every time my DH goes out with DS they end up coming in one in tears, the other mad angry! DS is genuinely upset and thinks he is in the right and DH has to be seen to be in the right.

However, he does lock horns with me aswell!!! When I pick him up from school there is always something wrong and he can be quite aggressive which immediately gets me annoyed... I try to stay calm because I know that I'm the adult and have to lead by example.

We started a treat on a Friday like a magazine or football cards if he was good and this worked well in the beginning but now he has come to expect it.

I totally recognise what you're saying Detta! DS is often all at odds when he comes out from school. I try to remember that for very active, rambunctious boys, school for 6 hours a day is one huge effort of reining themselves in; and boys who like to be right all the time are constantly being A) told what to do by the teachers and B) engaging in competitive behaviour

So there is a lot of steam to be let off when they come out and I think you are doing exactly the right thing by keeping calm, hard though that it!

Aww, don't worry if he expects his treat. Why shouldn't he get a treat on a friday - I like a glass of wine at the end of a long week, I still give myself that no matter how I have behaved

Well said HG. And sometimes I don't wait to Friday to give myself a treat...

Message withdrawn

One thing the Steve Biddulph book stresses about this 6/7 age is the increasing importance of dad's influence and of spending time with dad.....

so a good time to have a parenting chat with horn-locking DH's and give them a few strategies to either physically or metaphorically step away from the confrontation I think!

I've only had a quick scan, but wanted to say that my DS2 does the same thing when playing football at home. But, when he goes to footy on a Saturday he plays according to the rules.

Personally I wouldn't stop him going if he did it at the coaching sessions, simply because he needs to learn that you don't disagree with the ref and he has the final word. I'd be talking up the whole 'team spirit' thing and reinforcing its importance. Its all part of the discipline that sport brings, and to my mind, it is very important.

We go straight from football to the shop to buy the football trading cards/stickers (my boys Saturday treat). There have been occasions when they don't get them. It reinforces that they are rewards.

The way they get their treat is we have weekly sticker charts. If they get 3 'sad faces' they have one last chance. A 4th means no stickers/cards.

It was DH who suggested putting Mumsnet wisdom to the test. And he was so right. I am glad to hear we are not on our own. Sometimes you question yourself and wonder where you are going wrong. I have told DH about book and he is going to get it on his lunch break.

DS has always been head strong and this is very like his terrible twos. What is he going to be like when he's a teenager?!!!

I like to tell myself choice behaviour is down to a testosterone [sp] surge . That book is good because it goes into the physical development too.