Are nurseries/early years becoming too quick to claim 'behavioural problems' in boys

[Mog]

There are a few threads on boys in nurseries/reception who are being assessed for 'behavioural problems'. We're currently going through this with our third(ds2) because he is showing aggressive behaviour at times in nursery and won't sit for story time or join in singing. This seems to be the same in the other threads I've read.
How do people feel about this? Are we expecting too much of certain young boys - perhaps the ones like my second son who hate to be still and love exploring/taking apart/seeing how everything works. Being still is nearly impossible for him .First son was totally different. As for dd, I would have been a very smug person if I had only her .
Love to hear your thoughts.

I certainly think nurseries/reception are hard places to be if you're an active-run-around-all-day type, and easier if you are a do-colouring-for-45-minutes-at-a-time type.

YES!

i've rwad on here numerous threads when i've just thought 'that sounds like a completely normal boy!' and the nursery have been treating them as if they are an ASBO in the making.

Far more kids go to these settings now than in previous generations, and they go to school far too young.

there is some stuff on Times Online about how school can be 'toxic' for boys, can't remember who wrote the article.

I totally agree.

My ds is made out to be a right horror at times by the cm and his preschool as he doesn't seem to 'like' other children and will hit out at them if they come too close.

However, according to all the books I read, this is a normal stage for a not quite 2 and a half year old. And he is an angel at home.

Well, my dd was fine at nursery and now ds is in the same class.

The main difference I can see is pretty much along the lines of what emmaagain said; there is too much emphasis on quiet activities which require concentration. Not necessarily a good thing for very young children.

But some of it is down to the personality of the child and the teacher. Dd's nursery teacher was quite loud and outgoing - the children seemed to have a lot of fun. The current teacher is a lovely, quiet gentle soul but the atmosphere is always pretty subdued. That's how it seems to me anyway.

Average children are supposed to be able to concentrate for their age+2 in minutes. So a 2 or 3 year old should not be expected to concentrate for longer than about 4 minutes on any one activity.
Agree that dcs are expected to spend far too much time at tables rather than running around making lots of noise (which seems to be what little boys especially like to do.)

Activities at ds current nursery seem to be concentrated on quite 'feminine' activities i.e. sticking, colouring, imaginary play. My ds1 would have joined in this but ds2 is a real boy for want of a better phrase and there is very little that engages him. There was a thread a little while ago about how these boys would once have been out hunting and fishing and exploring the world and I could see ds really fitting in with this.
Could we call it 'stronghuntergather syndrome!'

Are nurseries/early years becoming too quick to claim 'behavioural problems' in boys? Yes and in girls too.
How do people feel about this? Well, last time I replied on another thread about this, I got shot down so I'll keep stum!

I think this largely depends on the quality of the staff. My ds went to a nursery where the nursery nurses were largely young girls who had no realistic idea of what little boys are like-and so yes he was labelled as a naughty child when in fact he was totally normal!

My dd goes to a pre-school where the staff are well aware of developmental stages and would not dream of labelling a child because they are behaving "normally"!

I would second chipkid. In my humble opinion, some of these nursery nurses do not really know. Apparently, anyone who works in a nursery can voice their concerns however absurd, and they do get taken seriously.

There was a polish nursery nurse working there but left soon after dd joined. I met her the other day - she's going back to Poland within the next couple of months - and was not surprised that I took dd out of that nursery.

It's another topic, but she told me over coffee what really happened day to day at that nursery. It was a real eye opener and would explain why dd was reluctant to talk.

an example of ds's nursery-I was pulled up and told that ds (2) had knocked the drinking cups on the floor in temper-like it was a really big deal. They also complained that when practising for sports day-if ds (2) wasn't in a particular race he would not stand still and watch but went off onto the play equipment! suggesting he was ADHD
They complained that when he was given some scissors for cutting and gluing-he cut the hair of the little girl next to him.

I decided not to send dd there (even though she is extremely compliant) as I genuinely believed that they viewed children who made them work a little harder as a problem!

In hindsight, ds1's preschool caused more problems than they ever solved. I had weekly complaints

"He wouldn't sit down nicely at lunch time today - do you eat at the table at home?" Yes, but he is 2.

"OHhhh your Ds1 bit someone on the finger today, I'm afraid" Yes, and I'm sure it was a bad thing to do but he is 2.

"He only really seems interested in the train track, lately, we are getting a bit worried!" He was 2, two, not four, two, and they really really made me feel bad for having a little boy who, at the end of the day, had ants in his pants.

I have been shocked to see this post from a nursery owner in reponse to a post about a 4yr old who accidentally broke a window by throwing a toy

"As I've said, it isn't typical for a four year old to hurl toys across the room in a nursery (and certainly not hard enough to break a window), and the way I would deal with it would depend on whether it was part of a pattern of behaviour. It isn't acceptable for four year old children to act this way in a group setting (whether they act this way at home or not), because if they all did it you'd have complete mayhem. And it would be dangerous - especially for the younger children in the group. So a behaviour plan or an IEP would have to be put in place, with one-to-one support for the child if necessary"

I think that proves the OP's point exactly!

From this thread

dd's nursery doesnt have a problem with boys out of the 20 kids only 3 are girls, they cope well with the boys running the place!

colditz - that is my 2 year old you are talking about.

Only, my complaints seem to be daily and not weekly

oh colditz your post has made me feel better but in regards to dd1..she is only just 2 and nursery have described her as willful as she refuses to engage in the set activities.

snort at your 2 year old being described as wilful etc

SNort again at colditzs post.

This is exactly what I mean. Ds has been described as 'obsessed' with trains and garages. But he's 3.5, and there is no way he would sit to paint or stick things. He won't sit for register - does it really matter at this age (they take 20 minutes to do the register while waiting for latecomers). He won't join in the dancing. 90% of children will do all this, but does it matter at this age if they don't. Too much structure too fast.

Give the teacher a serious look as she relates the information to you and say "Oh dear, you will let me know if you think this is going to have any bearing on his GCSE results, won't you!"

Boys are different to girls... I doubt anyone will dispute that generalised statement (will they?). I find that boys are more active, more aggressive, and need to release lots of energy during the day. Boys are like dogs... they need a good walk every day! Seriously, they do... if you have a young boy and you keep him indoors all day - what is it like? It's a nightmare, isn't it. But once you get out and about, they use up some of their boundless energy and become much easier to handle and more willing to concentrate on short tasks.

Why should children sit for storytime? Why should children join in singing? They may not want to join in... they may not have been ready to change activity. Good nurseries will encourage children to join in, but not force them. They will appreciate that every child is an individual, not little robots.

yes my ds(6) was referred to a battery of things from 3.5, it has caused me no end of headaches and worry.

1. speech therapy
2. hearing test (referred to hospital by school nurse all perfectly normal).
3. given glasses which he didn't need.
4. occupational therapist.
5. has an iep.

he settled down and became institutionalised at 5 and a half.

god, that's it isn't it southeast....they do need to become institutionalised

colditz - It must be some Midlands thing because that's exactly what was said about dd when she was 2, except change the word "bite" other children to "pinch". The staff spoke as if I taught her to do it. I can assure you, no one pinches anyone at my house!

Dd is very active. Yet I would argue that it's the other children who are inactive. I wonder whether the rise in childhood obesity may be due to the fact that children as young as 2 are taught and expected to sit on a chair quietly and listen to staff for hours on end. One member of staff at dd previous nursery certainly liked the sound of her own voice.

I've been described as "wilful". Just because I question things and don't just blindly go along with some of their daft ideas. One of the nursery nurses had the cheek to say "I hope your daughter hasn't inherited your wilfulness."

Your all probably right. It's all about conforming and being institutionalised.