DS1 (3.4) had DH in tears tonight!!

[TheGoddessBlossom]

He has just been IMPOSSIBLE this weekend (DS1 that is not DH). Ask him 30 times to do something, then have to shout, he ignores, refuses, shouts, screams, throws a wobbly. Totally exhausting and frustrating, and by tonight Dh had had enough and really lost it with him, really shouted, put him to bed with no bath and no story, and DS1 cried himself to sleep. Dh felt so bad he was in tears himself!

We really are at a loss with what to do with him at the moment, he's always been boisterous and cheeky, but usually a few threats of withdrawal of toys or treats or a spell on the naughty step works. Not any more. He's been to a party today, been out on his bike, loads of fun, and still cannot do a BLOODY THING HE IS TOLD!!!!

What the hell ar we doing wrong??? Please tell me this is a phase.

what kind of thing are you asking him to do?

I know it is very frustrating, but expecting obedience from most 3 and 4 y os is doomed to end in tears IMO

distraction, flexibility and humour are still your best tools here, rather than insisting 30 times and using threats and punishments

try to aim for the idea of working together as a team - build a good relationship with him wherever you can and show him how you and dp help one another and help him. This won't happen all at once, but is less soul destroying than trying to insist he always does what you says, and being inevitably forced to punish him when he fails

ps. it is a phase

How old is he?

Yes it is just a phase!

With our ds we found that always giving some sort of "choice" worked well. (eg. do you want to walk up the stairs, or be carried) We knew that it was really a false one but he didn't cotton on to that!

you have my complete and utter sympathy. So does your dhhugs
I'm sorry I have no helpful tips right now and I won't pretend to know the answer.

I can however tell you that you are not alone. We are going through the same thing at the moment.
Lots of testing of boundaries.
Over tiredness and a change in routine has had an enormously negative effect on our dd.
I wish you well with it all.
It will pass!!!!!!
I HOPE

This sounds familiar - ds is 3.3. Something that works well for us is to sympathise with him rather than tell him what to do. So, I need to wash up and he insists I carry on playing with him, even though I have given him due warning that I need to do something else. He will shout, scream, pull me and insist I do what he wants. I can just go and do it anyway, but he will keep up the campaign, but if I say something like, "you sound like you are very cross" he will tell me he is and then we talk about why. "Is that because you want me to carry on playing with you?" "Yes" (by which point he is getting tearful more often than not). We can then have a cuddle and hatch a plan (mummy just needs to wash up but if you go and choose a book, we can read it afterwards etc). This is surprisingly effective (for now!)

oh dear
I agree with franny here, I think you maybe need to rethink your approach.
I do quite a lot of jollying along, a fair amoutn of briskness. limit the "rules" to the absolute bare minimum, allow lots of time to do everything. allow as much autonomy as possible. make jokes about everything. be imaginative! not easy I know.
ime it is best to try and work on one or two things at once, and let the rest go for a while.what is your priority? number one., what do you want to change?

jen I think from title ds is 3.4 but I don't know how old dh is

by the way if you have a (ahem) spirited child then I have found this book very useful:

how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk

oh yes that thing from HTT always sounds good:

"you are cross because you want to go on playing with your toys. Wouldn't it be fun if we could stay awake all night and never sleep instead of going to bed?"

child: instantly does what they are meant to

please come upstairs it's bath time. Please come uptairs it's bath time. Come on H, it's bath time, want to do the bubbles? Come on you're in charge of bubbles... H, bath time hon, come on, upstairs we go, H, bath time, up we go then.... etc

H shoes off hon, you are getting mud everywhere, H can you take your shoes off, H shoes, off, do you want me to help you? No? Ok do it yourself then, can you take them off? Look sit here, first this one, can you take your shoes off please... etc

take your feet off the table H, eat up now, H feet, can you take your feet off H please, look, it's sausages, your fave, let's have a race, who can eat them first, look your brother's eating his, feet off now please hon, feet down, H can you take your feet off the table now please... etc

Leave the keys on the hook please H, I need to know they are there, H, please leave the keys alone, they'll get lost, H, keys, leave... etc

You get the picture. I'm not talking about expecting robot like acquiescence here, just the ability to follow BASIC NORMAL INSTRUCTIONS!!!!

Sorry. tough two days. He is totally adorable really, just driven us bonkers today.

With my older ds's (4 and 6) I have realised that bad behaviour often follows a lot of fun. I've gradually realised that if we stick to the boring routine, they are more likely compliant, but if we go out and have a good time, they can remain excited/tired/whatever for a long time and that's when bad behaviour often leads to tears. I don't know what the solution is because I want to have fun too!

I also found recently that with ds2 when he really saw how upset his behaviour made me (I didn't cry or get angry, I was just really sad and told him how I felt) it lead to an improvement in behaviour that has lasted a couple of weeks.

he is VERY tired today..........

me too.

TGB tbh that sounds very very very extra super normal
sorry that's probably not what you want to hear
we do a lot of:
sorry do we not understand English?
are you a MArtian? shall I ask you in MArtian "hibblebobblebloo"
if it is bath time and they don't want to get in, then skip bath time. or get in yourself.

what one thing is most important, right now?

yes i do get the picture

sounds normal and boring and frustrating

HTT has a method where you repeat the key part of what you want to happen, I believe, rather than just asking the same thing again and again so it just sounds like noise to be ignored

is this right HC? I haven't read it, I just read the thread on it

for instance you say "take your shoes off please, they are muddy." the second time you just say "Shoes!"

gets their attention better, otherwise they tune out I think.

DS is about this age, can be stubborn as a mule. I do the choice thing too, that normally helps.

When DD was this age, we noticed that just spending more time playing/drawing/reading with her helped. She was really looking for more attention when she was being naughty. Even just taking 5 or 10 minutes to read a story made her behaviour better for the rest of the morning.

And the jollying along, tickling...

Sometimes I put on a really grumpy face and say, "I am ANGRY". (Complete with folded arms and stamping of feet) It makes him laugh and he forgets that he was being difficult.

Agree re the choices thing... "ok, would you like a bath or a shower?" worked for us with bath refusal

Role-play is a good one... DD1 went through a phase of teeth-brushing refusal at about 2.5-3yr. DP and I used to pretend to be the dentist, lounge was the waiting room, loooong discussions about what dd had eaten that day (does have the tendency to be quite protracted, though!)

Pick your battles! Let the small stuff go - i.e does it really matter if dd is wearing seasonally mis-matched and terribly colour co-ordinated clothing?!

yes that's one suggestion:
bathtime
shoes
simple, straight forward instructions

have you tried the sort of thing Kindersurprise suggests? I do something similar - I might say, do you want to see my cross face? oh no, here it is, it;s coming

I like the sound of that adaptation of what you are asking so that it doesn't just become noise. I hate that feeling that I might just as well be standing in the garage asking the wall to eat their tea.

I will also try the attention thing too, and try and just read a book with him. I find the weekends so stressful, DH just seems to add to the tension, as he is of the school of thought that kids should "do as they are told", which although I don't buy into completely, I do agree with to some extent. You can't just suddenly expect them at 8 to know when you are serious about needing them to comply if you don't instil that at a younger age. And no I don't mean about trivial mundane things like shoes and baths, but at some point they must know who is the adult and who is the child, am I wrong?

Ah, sounds like our house.

Go and have a glass of wine/cup of tea/bar of choc and put your feet up.

Would it help if you had a "rule" book/chart for some things, like shoes off, feet off table. For some reason this works for us, we can tell them 10times to take their shoes off and be ignored. If I say, "oh, you know that is the rule" then they do it. Especially if I follow up with, "Just like in kindergarten"

Sometimes a more hands-on approach can help too. If he doesn't go upstairs the first time he is told, just calmly take him by the hand and walk him up. I know it's frustrating to have to make them do things when they should be old enough to do them themselves, but at least he'll get the message that when Mummy or Daddy say something is to happen, then that is what will happen. And it is less damaging to your authority (not to mention your voice!) than to shout 20 times with no result. The trick is to try not to let him see that you are afraid of losing control over him.

P.S. IME the age of 3 is a particularly difficult one. And lots of children will play up after they've been getting excited and overtired at a party.

Another recommendation for how to talk = lifesaver.
I am stricter than F&Z, and do think it is reasonable to expect obediance from 3-4 yr olds.
But I too have been at my wits end.
With my high expectations ?
PLEASE order yourself a copy form the library - it will give you great ideas of how to cope with this testing time.
I LOL at your description of your day, only becasue it sounded so familiar

Mmm, I think that your DH sounds a bit like mine. He thinks that children should do as they are told too.

I keep telling DH that there are some things that I will not tolerate discussions about, eg. car safety but somethings are not worth getting everyone in a state about.

Yes, they have to learn who the boss is, but they also have to occasionally win the argument. They need to feel that if they speak to me that I will listen and sometimes might change my mind and allow something that I had previously not allowed.

We are practicing table manners at the moment, as we were out for my birthday and they were really badly behaved the whole time. I have to force myself not to pick them up on every single little thing and let some things slide. Otherwise I would be sitting there moaning and fuming through every meal.

Ummm I hate to say this because I'm a bit Recently we got totally fed up with dd 'not listening' then realised she could not hear because she had a cold (what awful parents).

After 3 days of 'what is wrong with you, why don't you listen'. I finally asked 'are you finding it hard to hear?' reply 'yes'. 'do your ears hurt?', reply 'yes', 'why didn't you say?' shrug.

If not, then maybe you need to give more space. My dh and dd often get into a stand off, but I try walking away more and get better response

Blossom, rereading your description of what you are saying to him, I don't know whether this is correct at all, but I am picking up a kind of beseeching / wheedling tone from your words

I did a parenting course last year, and one of the things we had to do was to practise saying things in an assertive way. They said very often parents will use a begging tone, or an aggressive commanding tone. I found it quite interesting to try out saying the same phrase in the different manners, and it helped me recognise when I was slipping into one or other of the less helpful ways of saying things.