I'm not good enough

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

DS1 hurt DD. Sent him to the step. Refused to go and pushed his sister hurting her. Have spent the last 3/4 hours trying to get him to sit on his step. He has wrecked the lounge, spoilt DD and DS2's game several times. Frightened the cat and the baby. Hidden in various places. Refused to go to his room. Refused to have his tea. (My cooking and baking are awful apparently)
Threatened to run away so I took all the keys. Somehow he got out of the front door and ran half way down the road. I had to abandon DD and DS2 and run after him. What the hell do I do? He is 7 in March. I know he has been angry over the death of GN but this seems plain bad behaviour. DH not here and can't come home. Help!

Has the behaviour started since GN died or was it occuring before that?

Oh Nab, you poor thing. No advice to offer i'm afraid, but just thought i'd offer big hugs. xx

TBH I'm not sure. He has had times of looking like he has pure anger in his face but nothing like last night.

He just will not talk to us to tell us what is wrong.

He just says as he doesn't want to live here any more, he doesn't wamt me to love him and he will run away and stab himself as soon as he can.

Thinking about getting a bolt for the front door so if he does find a key and gets the chain off, he is stuck.

I am out of my depth and failing dismally.

Thank you for the hugs.

"He keeps telling me he doesn't want me to love him."

Oh nab No advice as I frequently fail in dealing with such behaviour and end up yelling. Nothing like this though. But you have all my sympathies.

I think you sound like a saint not to have cracked and lost it completely.

Thank you. Your post just made me teary. Thank you for the support.

I wish my nan was here.

Hi NAB

My DS2 has been doing similar very frightening things. Huge sympathies. It's as if there are no words to truly describe the dangerous nature of the incidents. Am I saying something which is tallying with what is going on with you? It may be a bit different for you.

Do you want me to say any more?

Only if you want too. I am grateful for any help.

Oh NAB, I really don't know what to say.

The only point I can make is that as soon as you enter into any form of argument with him, be it making him sit on the step, and him arguing or at any point either of you raising your voice and saying something not nice, it has left the realms of what I would call 'normal behaviour' therefore no longer fits in with 'normal' tactics, iyswim.

The step can be great for some kids but is not worth a hoot once an argument starts, it might look great when supernannny picks them up and makes them sit there but do we really want to end up physically fighting our children?

The second it changes from 'normal behaviour'- I use this term as loosely as possible btw, I'm not saying your child isn't normal just that there are two types of misbehaving, one is the more common things and then there is the power struggle- as soon as it becomes a pwoer struggle, stop paying him any attention at all. Not one little bit. I understand you need to make it so he is safe to be ignored in your home, wrt locks etc, but do that then just completely ignore any of the behaviour that oversteps boundaries of what you feel is acceptable as bad behaviour (am I making sense?).

Luckily I never had any of these problems with DD but I think she was too wrapped up in other things going on that she wouldn't make a fuss.

DS on the other hand is just turned 3 and a KING of power struggles. I dread to think what he'll be like at 7! I have noticed though that as soon as I enter into a power struggle with him, (try to make him do anything) he exerts every little bit of control he has and screams and cries and tells me he doesnt love me etc etc.

Hard as it is, I just ask him to calm down so we can talk about the problem, if he won't I walk away and leave him to it. I know DS is 3 so different to yours, but I do the same techniques with anyone of any age! If you can't talk to me calmly and discuss the problem, I'm not interested.

There is no way on earth to win a power struggle with a child, so do not even bother to get into it, they will be determined to win and you will ether a)get so distraught at seeing them like that that you'll give in or b)fight and fight with them til horns are locked and never get anywhere.

Good Luck.

xx

Okay, I take your point. If he refuses to sit on the step/go to his room for hurting his sister what do I do? He has to have some sort of punishment.

I ignored him as much as possible except for when he was running down the road.

I hate this.

Hi NAB..firstly, poor you, plenty of hugs coming your way...
If it makes you feel any better I had a shit night with ds2 last night who's 7 in May. He was running around, shouting, screaming, kicked me and pulled my hair and I'm not even very sure why.....
I too tried step, no use, so I physically had him in a firemans lift, went straight to bathroom, locked door, ran bath and stuck him in it (naked of course . This did work and after bath he was much calmer. It took me a bottle of merlot!
Anyway, it does sound like your ds is hurting as he's obviously trying to hurt you both physically and emotionally.
I know that at this sort of age, particularly in boys I think because of the testosterone, they get quite angry as they struggle to deal with more complicated emotions, this might be true in your cause cos of your GN. Can you get a chance to do something on your own with him? maybe take him out at the weekend, for a swim and a drink even..then you might get to talk to him o - o - o. HTH's

He tells you he doesn't want you to love him anymore - is he frightened you will die like GN and then he will have to deal with pain of losing you? - so if you don't love him perhaps in his little mind he thinks he will be able not to love you in return and therefore not hurt if he loses you? When a death occurs - regardless of whether the child is close to the person who has gone - it can make children realise that death is real and it does happen - and that in fact we will all die - and it can get all out of proportion for a little one to take so much on board and their thought processes get all muddled up and confused. I think he has reacted to GN's death regardless of whether they were close. His anger is the only way he knows how to display what he is feeling. You say you have tried to talk to him and he can not tell you what is wrong - well perhaps that is just it - he can not put in to words his feelings. Perhaps they are so overwelming and they are feelings he has not experienced before - he can not put them in to words. Perhaps you could ring a bereavment helpline and talk it through with someone. See if they think this is a possibility and if so what would they suggest you can do to help him. I think he needs lost of love and re-assurance at the moment - not what you feel like giving him when he behaves so - but try telling him over and over again - you will always love him and you are not going anywhere.

I relly feel for you and DS - we all adore our LO's and to see them behave so is heartbreaking - I hope you can find some way to help him.

Love and hugs to you both.

I agre with VS - it is a power struggle, one which all dc go through to some extent, tho hurting others is NOT on.
How about school? Have his teachers seen any sudden change in behaviour?

A punishment that doesn't entail him havign to co-operate? Does he have things that can be taken away?

Ignoring a child is in its own way a punishment though, so if you can try to ignore him then discuss it with him after he has calmed down, and then try to talk to him about hitting his sister.

Maybe point out that all that hoo-hah could have been avoided if he'd just sat on the step or not hit his sister and then tell him that you can't leave violence unpunished so he doesn't get to do something the other two are, or you're going to take away his favourite toy for a day, or no TV, something that doesn't involve him having to do anything, but when you tell him, do it after he has calmed down.

If he is anything like mine then he'll kick and scream and yell and cry for a good time then go quiet as he feels sorry for himself, then want a hug. Give him that hug, ask him if he has calmed down and whilst hugging him talk to him in the calmest voice you can and explain that you really don't want to punish him but you can't allow violence in your house and that if one of his siblings hit him they too would be punished.

xxxxx

Ok,..so he has to be punished I agree but I wouldn't worry about it too much at this minute,..I think I'd be trying to find out why he's so unhappy, it must be very overwhelming for him and ok, that doesn't excuse the bad behaviour but it's kinda understandable.

Breathe, breathe. tightness of chest due to stress.

At school all appears fine. Some teachers are overly harsh with him (from what he tells me) but his regular teacher has no problems and he is an angel.

His Dad took every single toy out if his room last night so he has his desk and his bed and teddies. That's it.

He has lost the right to have the computer or play on his Daddy's piano for a week as he threw a block at them both, and I have cancelled them going to Nanny and Grandad's for tea tmw as they were awful this morning. DS1 told me it wasn't a loss of a treat as he didn't want to go anyway. It could be bravado but he hasn't wanted to go before.

Normally by now I am getting excited about picking him up but I just feel upset, sad, scared, worried and pathetic for feeling all those things.

by the way NAB is this relatively new behaviour:i.e since GN?

TBH I'm not sure. He has had times of looking like he has pure anger in his face but nothing like last night.

Ok,...deep breath,
follow through with those punishments, but try not to hand out any more, it sounds like he doesn't really care at the moment. Try and pick him up with a smile on your face, ignore any non dangerous behaviour and see how he is after school. Is he tired?

I think ditch the naughty step. There is just no point using a technique that is actually harder to deal with than the original naughtiness, and having a power struggle for half an hour to get a child to sit in one place is just such a waste of all your precious time!

I think each day you just need to start with a completely clean slate and a fresh start. You are happy, they are happy, you talk to eachother with love and kindness and politeness etc etc...by doing this you arm yourself with more strategies IMO. Even a change in tone from you can be a punishment...if your ds has been having a lovely chat with you then does something which results in you looking cross and raising your voice, that can be devastating. Again, losing your positive attention because he's done something, and you giving it to another child instead, that can work too. It doesn't NEED to be a formal punitive thing. You work down to those formal things rather than impose them as soon as something is done.

I think take the pressure of yourself NAB. You don't have to deal with these incidents in a formal way, all the time. And taking away the 'punishment' takes away the power struggle element. There is no point trying to keep him in by locking doors; he has free will and can only be reached by communication. Communication is often so key.

I also think an awful lot can be defused with humour. Situations which could result in the locking of horns and the power struggle can just be seen off if you remember to be calm, don't take it all so seriously. Of course hitting needs to be addressed - but there are loads of situations I can think of where children get a bit rude or bolshy but you can tease them out of it.

And I think taking toys away, cancelling treats, etc just leads to resentment and anger, which feeds the naughty behaviour. They feel it's 'us and them' and they are quite prepared to step up for the fight.

It could be dealt with by saying "I'm glad we're going to your grandparents tonight, we had a bit of a horrible morning so it will be nice to have a nice afternoon". You just deal with the morning's activities at the time - end of story.

I think all the punishments are feeding it, I really do - I think with the best of intentions, it's just making it worse.

Sigh

(not at you, HG. Just at the situation and the fact I seem to be doing everything wrong.)

Maybe he has been 'over-punished'?

I bet if I took every one of DD/DS's toys/priviledges away they'd just get more stroppy with me, they have nothing left to lose.

One instance of bad behaviour means one punishment.

I do agree with what everyone else ahs said though, right now you need to get through to him, if that means holiding off punishments for a while then do so, just ignore, if he hits his sister, go to her, comfort her, tell him it's wrong then ignore him.

The punishments are going to be what is in the forefront of his mind and you need time to talk to him atm, involve him in anthing that takes you away from them for a minute (in other words, anything that means you cant watch his every move to protect his sister by stepping in), get him to hold a sponn whilst you cook or dust whilst you hoover, anything that keeps him away from them when there is no-one to supervise, that way you won't feel guilty about her getting hurt because you're trying not to punish.

Anytime he does be naughty just tell him you're not happy and ignore him, dont answer back if he does, and discuss it with him once he is calm. Hopefully after a week or two he'll get used to talking with you and not being punished(which of course if he has been behaing badly then he is used to) and will open up to you more.

Don't ask him to open up though, just make statements, not questions, for example if he says horrible things whilst he is 'stropping'(it's good to be able to label that in your head, because as long as you think , ok, its a power struggle, its a strop, you'll find it easier to ignore, because you will have a set response) then when he is calm, sit with him, and say, 'You calmed down now? I know you dont like it when mum tells you off, but I cant allow you to hurt your sister, ok?' hopefully he'll say 'ok' then if you want to ask him why he hit her, do so, but dont ask why he did anything he did whilst he was stropping, just tell him you understand he gets angry but you'd rather he didnt say because you love him and it hurts to see/hear.

He needs to open up when he is ready, and as someone else said, he may not even know himself.

Try not to beat yourself up about it too much either, I assume you too are grieving and trying to deal with this as well is going to be hard, but you're doing great, just by caring you're doing great.
xxx

Don't feel like that NAB, you're doing the best you can at the time. It's all very well for us to sit here giving you advice, but we're not there or emotionally involved. Be kind to yourself

x-posted with Honoria.

Of course you're doing your best NAB. I honestly think you need to do a bit less! Relax, smile, enjoy and take the pressure off

And have realistic expectations, too - you have THREE children! Just getting them through the day safely is doing a hell of a lot right. And 3 kids means inevitable fisticuffs, arguments.....it's not down to you to control every aspect of their behaviour every day. Sometimes rather than getting involved to mediate or punish you might be able to do LESS, as in "oh well if you're going to be squabbling then you'll be too busy to help me lick the cake bowl" or similar.