CONTROLLED CRYING - comments and views needed.

[Lulabellx1]

Hi guys

Im thinking of starting my little one off on a controlled crying bedtime routine. He's 11 weeks now and needs to learn to go to sleep by himself as i have been feeding him to sleep previously, but this isn't working anymore and he has been up till midnight these past few nights.

Would like some opinions from those who have given it a go

Lu xx

What i'm trying to say is that there is a lot of emotive language used against people who allow their babies to cry-down / learn to fall asleep on their own (however you want to call it)

But - at some stage, most people will be in a situation where their baby is crying and they are not able to attend to them. Therefore their babies will also experience "abandonment" (not my word, someone else's)

If my baby needs feeding, changing, entertaining, cuddling - I am there like a shot.

If she's tired and needs to go to sleep, I put her in the cot, she chunters on for a few mins, and then she drifts off to a blissfully contented sleep. when she wakes up, I go and get her. I don't think she feels in the least bit abandonned

And when I say emotive language - I mean words like "evil".

Of course a tired baby crying means something - it means "I'm tired, put me to bed"

Which is where I'm going now

That's fair enough but I do think there IS a difference between leaving your baby to moan while you listen and judge whether they need you or not, and letting them scream for 5/10/15 minutes because you are 'doing CC'.

I think lots of it is about instinct. I am happy when people instinctively feel their babies need to moan a little before going to sleep, I find it disturbing that leaving a child to cry is called a 'technique' and you have to do it for 1 min,2 mins etc rather than listening to your own baby and what THEY need.

I also think people shouldn't feel pressured into not following their instincts and going to their babies because they will 'never learn'. I believe there are more creative ways to teach. And children can always be taught new things.

As parents, of course our children will develop as we raise them doing our best. And we will never be raising 'perfect children' so in that sense, I agree with not making people out to be evil. Attachment issues I feel are not caused by leaving babies a little to moan, but a wider sense of lack of response to babies needs and cries. Even if they do have attachment issues, of course they can grow into successful children and adults anyway.

But for me, attachment is very very very important and so I would sacrifice sleeping independently in the early years (and some of my sleep). For others, they would maybe consider that more important. This therefore colours my whole parenting approach. I would just want parents to be aware of what they are trying to achieve long-term.

I pre-empted your 'evil' there

And yes, I am going to bed too

We had a routine from 9 weeks it was recommended by the hv. About 6pm, we'd give ds a bath, read him stories, lots of gentle and quiet cuddles, then bottle, then bed around 7 while still awake. If he cried or woke during the night we went to him.

After 2 weeks he seemed to know what was coming next and he slept better - not all night - but for longer periods. Might be coincidence, i don't know. The routine wasn't that rigid, although I aimed to have him in bed by 7.30 at the latest. Sometimes he went earlier. He usually woke around 11 and then 4 for feeds. If he did wake up he didn't need much to settle him, I'd usually just sit by the cot and hold his hand and whisper 'I'm here, mama's here' and it woudl usually be enough to get him off to sleep. There were times it didn't work, but that didn't happen often.

By 5m he only woke once during the night about 1-2 am for a feed. From about 9m he slept through 7-7.

For me, the routine prepared (if that's the right word) ds for sleep - he knew it was coming and what would happen and I think it helped him.

I've only read about cc, I don't think I could do it, I can't stand hearing my ds cry. I think that you have to be led by your baby. Very few sleep for long periods. Some need lots, others don't. As he's so young, I would say dont do it, try other things. A routine may help - it may not likewise a recording of white noise - we had a tape of the washing machine and hoover which we played when he didn't sleep well and it seemed to help.

I think it might depend on the baby. I tried letting ds "cry down" once as I'd been told that lots of babies "need to have a little wail" and then settle themselves to sleep.

I'm sure that is true for some babies.

However when I tried it with ds he screamed and screamed and screamed. When I went in after ten minutes he was hysterical sobbing his entire body was shaking all over and he had tears streaming down his face mixed in with vomit from where he'd been sick screaming so much. He was about four months when I did that too, so not a newborn any more.

I could never let him cry himself to sleep, or do controlled crying, or anything like that after that incident.

However I accept not all babies are the same and some might settle for a little wail before a sleep. (!)

I second (or third?) the No Cry Sleep Solution too.

Finally, some concession that mothers should decide what is the best option for their child.

I was a bit too tired last night to reason my argument about the carseat very well, but what i was trying to get across is that a baby who is left to cry for short periods (10-15 minutes) in order to learn to fall asleep is not going to suffer long-term attachment issues, any more than a baby who is left to cry in a carseat will.

(And in response to the argument about "well, why don't you walk, or catch the bus", it's just not feasible if you have older DCs and live in the country!)

WRT your tale of leaving your baby to cry MerryXmoss - the whole point of "CC" is that you don't leave your baby convulsing in a pool of their own vomit for 10 minutes, you are popping in to reassure them and calm down. Jeez.

merryxmoss - i'm afraid 10 mins was too long. i've never left mine for more than 2 when doing CC.
My 'problem' at the moment is that DD2 15mo wakes during the night and can't go back to sleep herself. The xmas hols start today so i am going to move her into her sister's room. Have been putting it off as sis is going to be woken upby baby but at least she can sleep in during the hols.

gingerninja on Thu 20-Dec-07 22:14:38 "Just my oppinion but if they're crying and you're there and they know you are then you're not fostering the feeling of abandonment which is my fear for CC where you actually leave them alone and stop communicating. "

Sorry, but CC is not about 'leaving them alone and not communicating'. You are going in and out, stroking their face or speaking softly to them or patting them and going out again at very short intervals, not going off and leaving them to sream themselves to sleep.
i think alot of people have a misunderstanding of what CC is and how to do it 'properly'.

LOL at Bodkin..!

Bodkin, I wasn't saying that what I was doing was CC. It was what a friend of mine suggested to me might help, if I just let him "cry down". He didn't cry down at all - he cried up! But it just left me - and that is just me, personally - with the feeling I'd never try any sleep training that involved crying whatsoever.

I wasn't being judgmental of people who used CC, in fact I actually used a sign for those whose babies do settle using a crying method.

(Tbh it was probably less than ten minutes but it felt more like a lifetime. )

I guess I'm lucky wrt to the driving / car seat "dilemma" because I can't drive!

Also I was told (by same friend) that crrying down was similar to CC and was leaving for ten mins, then 20, then 40 and so on and so forth.

Was only afterwards I found out it was not that at all. So yes I did "leave my baby convulsing in a pool of his own vomit" (as if I don't feel guilty enough already) I was following advice, which I now deeply regret. Thanks.

MerryXMoss - don't feel guilty - you were only following advice and trying something new. I have used CC and it is hard - even when you are going in every 2 minutes so you must have been really upset when you found your lo so distressed..x

meryxmoss - don't feel bad about the vomit - IME they vomit very easily, sometimes after only a minute or two...

I didn't argue that people should walk or take the bus. I said that's what I do (I live in London) and I am glad it means I have avoided the situation.

IMO comforting etc babies while they cry is different to leaving them to cry alone anyway. I DO think any kind of teaching only works if they are old enough to learn!

hello, sorry havn't read the whole thread.
i think at 11 weeks the baby is far far too young for this approach.
what i used to do with mine is just put them down in their crib when ever they seemed settled. use a dummy if you need to, gentle patting or rubbing on babys back or tummy, just to let them know you are still there, and then a sneaky retreat. good luck, they do go to sleep eventually

oh forgot to say, i always thought with all of mine , that around the 3 month mark they all seemed to start to sleep for longer periods at a time, so maybe your babe is just about to reach that point-fingers crossed for you.

You can try other things - reading/reciting nursery rhymes/story in a slow calm voice while massaging legs and dim lighting worked for my dd around that age. Rocking, singing. I think for ages when very little (before 3months) we would walk her up and down stairs very slowly while cuddling and counting, or a safer option, doing gentle leg lunges in the bedroom - great for your bum too. Swaddling? At that age probably leaving space for arm movement.
My dd used to go sleep after bf which I felt bad about at the time but she nsturally moved to being able to go to sleep herself after a winding-down routine, so it hasn't been a problem. Patience and perserverence needed in huge dollops. Good luck x

MerryXmoss - I apologise sincerely if I made you feel bad. I (mistakenly) got the impression that your story was intended to make those who let their LOs cry down feel guilty.

Anyway, most people who use CC or crying down also use the other techniques mentioned as well to calm their babes down ready to go to sleep... it's not like we just hurl them in the cot and run

Wishing you all a Merry and (hopefully) well-rested Christmas

No no no enough guilt in this parenting business without anyone trying to add to it!!

Thanks Bodkin

I have mixed feelings about controlled crying: I hate the idea of "teaching a baby a lesson" by letting him/her cry it out but at the same time I think that constantly going in/shushing/picking up a very tired baby can actually stop him/her getting some much-needed sleep. If I was taking my dd (4.5 mths) out in her buggy and she was grisly because she was due a nap I would carry on pushing her till she nodded off, likewise if she was doing the same in the car I would have to let her cry for a while, so I'm not sure it's that bad to let a tired baby go to sleep, within reason.

PS I've spent ages worrying about the feeding-to-sleep thing but have now decided to sod it. My new year's resolution is to stop spending so much time worrying about creating bad habits and just enjoy my fabulous little girl.

Babies just need love - not some book method. However, each family has to do what works regardless of what the rest of the world appears to be doing or suggesting. Your baby is individual and you will learn from each other over time - take on board advice but only take it as far as you feel it necessary - don't get pressurised - there is enough for you to worry about. Enjoy baby - it will be very tough being mum but children give love and joy like no other experience in the world.

All the best to you.