CONTROLLED CRYING - comments and views needed.

[Lulabellx1]

Hi guys

Im thinking of starting my little one off on a controlled crying bedtime routine. He's 11 weeks now and needs to learn to go to sleep by himself as i have been feeding him to sleep previously, but this isn't working anymore and he has been up till midnight these past few nights.

Would like some opinions from those who have given it a go

Lu xx

6 mths considered abosiulte minimum, generally speaking.

I always feel a little uncomfortable debating a subject like this with people who have actually done the thing that I find problematic. Still, I suppose you wouldn't have posted if you weren't ready for people to disagree with you, karen999? I hope so anyway! I think that it's a false argument to say that it worked so it's OK. Lots of things might work, but still not be a good idea.

And, actually, I think you were probably quite lucky that it did work. I do suspect that we only hear about the cc experiences where it does work - I wonder how many attempts fail? And it seems to me that the whole ethos of cc - the having to be strong, not giving up and so on would make it quite hard for anyone to admit "failure".

we did it when dd1 was about 8 or 9 mths. Built up from leaving her for 2 mins to about 8 mins I think, with resettling in bwtween. Long time ago. Worked for us.

If by controlled crying you mean following Dr Ferber's method (settle baby down to bed while still awake, if he starts crying leave and return after 5 mins, soothe, leave, return after 10 mins, then 15 and repeat at 15 until asleep - extend by 5 mins each night) then 11 weeks definitely too young. In his book Dr Ferber says his method not suitable for under 6 months.

I know there are lots of criticisms of this method but it really really saved my sanity. My DS is now 9 months old, started controlled crying last month. Until last month he had slept for more than 5 hours at a stretch just three times in his life. Exhuasted did not begin to describe how I felt.

Now, after only 3 nights of controlled crying (which were nowhere near as bad as I feared they would be - only got to the first 15 min wait before falling asleep and only woke once therefter for 3 nights) he sleeps through almost every night. If he does stir a quick stroke and leave for 5 mins will have him asleep again.

I know baby whisperer has a lot of fans but I don't understand how pick up/put down is supposed to be so much kinder. Picking up/putting down just wound DS up as he thohught he was going to get cuddled/breast fed to sleep, then had total meltdown when put down again.

11 weeks?

I agree with the others. Routines forge themeselves with time. They also change with time.

There is nothing wrong with offering a baby comfort. Even if it is to get them to sleep. Feeding to sleep is absolutely fine.

Babies are not predictable.

Of course you can teach a baby to sleep with CC but at what price?

IME he's far far too young. He needs you and you should respond.

Don't listen to advice that he should be sleeping on his own, sleeping through, feeding at regular intervals. It's baloney. Your baby is unique and you have to follow his lead.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I feel strongly that an 11 week old baby is a totally helpless creature and needs its parents to provide love, security and comfort when required.

At 11 weeks, his 'behaviour' will change from week to week. Things will change really quickly. I know it doesn't FEEL like that when you are in the middle of it - it's like being ill or in pain, you can't imagine feeling better again - but it will change, really quickly. He doesn't need to learn to go to sleep by himself at the moment. I would just keep him up with me at this age, cuddle him on the sofa maybe with some telly on low, or feed him on the sofa. Don't worry too much about where he sleeps or 'routine'. That will come in time. His behaviour sounds very very normal for such a tiny baby. They change every week. If you have specific concerns or worries, post them here and you will get some helpful responses and some sympathy. Congrats on your baby. XXX

FWIW this is major hindisght though and slightly wistful
I have a 13 yr old son now as my eldest
He was a bastard sleeper as a child, truly awful, slept 20 mins out of every hour and fed the rest.
Being my first I just assumed it was normal

I did cc with him at 15 mths. I had to or else there might have been murder or suicide.

It worked.
But you know now looking at him I wish I'd spent more time mursing him... Tis such a small phase of their lives all in all.
Cuddle them while they still let you is my advice. They sure sleep shedloads as teens

Don't do it. You don't need to. Just give it time and his sleep patterns will settle. What he's doing now is perfectly normal and will pass. You may be run ragged and exhausted by then but you will get your sleep time back eventually, honest!

Thanks for all your opinions and views. Seems i touched on a controversial subject!

When i talked about controlled crying i did not mean following the strict rules. I was more along the lines of the crying down idea.

The reason i said he needs to learn to sleep on his own is simply because i am worried if he doesnt get a bedtime routine down now, it will be harder to install in an older child. I have now problem cuddling/feeding him as long as he needs me (he is my lovely baby after all) it's just i dont want it to prevent him from sleeping well in future.

Listening to everyone's comments i think i will wait until he is at least six months and see if he menages to slip into his own natural routine. I can always re-assess the situation then.

Karen999... thanks for being brave! lol

Lula, sorry if my previous post sounded harsh. CC is a very emotive subject on here and whilst I wouldn't personally do it, I can understand why people with older babies do. My DD is 15 months and is now an OK sleeper, she's got there all on her own. We have nights that are awful and nights that are great but mostly nights that are manageable. You become a lot better at managing on less sleep in time and you do what you need to to get through it.

Please don't worry yourself about routines. I spent months battling trying to get my DD into a routine and she just wasn't having any of it. It just made me miserable. We naturally found a routine much later on. It's really simple, wash, change, story, lights down, milk and cuddle to sleep. IME the falling to sleep on their own thing doesn't make any difference to wakefullness during the night (although you'll probably get told differently). It wasn't long ago that he was tucked up warm inside you and feeding and sleeping on demand. This new world is probably really scary and it's only natural that he wants to be warm and tucked up next to you. Just relax, go with the flow and enjoy him. As the other poster said, one day you'll turn around and he'll be a teenager. Hope you have a lovely Christmas together.

Hi Lula, Echo what other posters have said that 11 weeks is too young for a routine. He won't understand it, his need for food and your cuddles change often and he probably doean't even know he's been born yet!

I think small babies do cry a lot at bedtime at that age - mine certainly did and I thought it would be like that for ever. Like everything else, the days of 2 hours settling DS to sleep have passed with absolute minimal help from me. I would not worry about feeding to sleep either, I did it till 6 months and still do if DS falls asleep having his beditme feed, it has not "created the rod" for my own back that my mother said it would and DS is well able to settle himself now.

Around 3-4 months we did introduce a bedtime routine which we began when he started yawning. He quickly realised this series of actions meant bedtime! There are loads of threads on here about what you could try. Then we did a a very gradual withdrawl type method - feeding to sleep, then rocking, then cuddling then shh patting, then leaving him with checks every few minutes till now at 7 1/2 months DS usually settles to sleep alone (unless teething or ill). Only a bit of whimpering and no stress for me.

It seems like some mums on MN feel like CC was their only option particularly with older bad sleepers, but at 11 weeks you have lots of time to see how your baby's sleeping pans out before you decide to do any sleep training.

I absolutely agree with Morningpaper. Even the "inventors" of CC don't advocate it before a year old.

The whole rationale of CC is that the child learns something:- that a parent will come, but that the effort to achieve this is probably outweighing the benefit. "I know Mummy comes when I cry, but she only comes in a for a moment to check I'm OK, then leaves again, then comes back if I cry again. She won't play with me or take me back downstairs, so she's not being much fun. I may as well go to sleep. I know she's there for me if I need her"

Under a year, babies simply don't have the mental capacity to work this out. They feel lost, abandoned and desperately upset. Sure, they stop crying in the end, because they learn that there is no point. Why scream and scream when you are completely ignored. Maybe Mummy isn't even there any more. The house could be empty for all baby knows! God only knows what long-term damage this does to a developing brain.

Personally I could never leave my DS to cry anyway, the sound broke my heart.

I've never really understood what "crying down" is. Does it just mean leaving baby to scream until they pass out with exhaustion?

Don't
Do
It

it is mean and cruel to do this to young babies imo

and I don't leave my 3 year old to cry either, if she needs comforting in the night so be it

they will sleep eventually

merryPIFFLE your post has brought a tear to my eye! My ds is only 13 mo now but i have often thought recently that i should get as many cuddles now as i can as already he isn't that keen on being cuddled a lot!
Will double my effort to enjoy every cuddle from now on...

I did crying down with my 12 week old.

We left him for one minute, then went back in and comforted him. Then left him for two minutes, then went back in and comforted him. Etc etc.

The longest we ever had to leave him for was five minutes. It worked brilliantly and within three days he was going down without a peep. He has slept brilliantly ever since.

Went through a period of waking up at 5 a couple of months ago. Did CC for three nights and no more waking.

I consider that helping my child to learn to sleep is a gift to him, not cruelty.

I have been called evil, cruel, child abuser, all the usual hysterical bullshit, but hey, my child is brilliant and loves me and we're all happy, and get plenty of sleep, so who gives a toss what other people think? Do what you think is right.

Incidentally, there seems to be this perception that people who do some form of sleep training don't cuddle their children. This is also hysterical bullshit.

I'll be brave and come on and say that some babies need to "cry down" before they can fall asleep. With my DD2 (5 months) any patting, rocking, singing etc made her cry more and overstimulated her. DD1 always fell asleep feeding but DD2 has rarely fallen asleep after a feed - partly because of wind/puking and partly, that's just the way she is - even after a night feed she is wide awake. So how else am I supposed to get her to go to sleep? She won't take a dummy either. In the end, I decided that the course of action that would result in the least amount of crying, would be to leave her to "cry down" - which takes about 5 mins - 10 mins before she drops off quite contentedly.

Babies cry. That's what they do. For example, if you were in a car driving and the baby was in the (rear-facing) car seat in the back crying - they would not know you were just there in front, and you might have to leave them to cry for 10 - 15 mins before you could pull over and see to them. So why is it any worse to leave them to cry a bit before they settle themselves?

"The reason i said he needs to learn to sleep on his own is simply because i am worried if he doesnt get a bedtime routine down now, it will be harder to install in an older child."

It won't.

They're not as cute when they're older. It's easier.

Ah, hello Krang! Phew, I am not alone

You've worded it so much better than me!

And by "older" I mean really quite a lot older. Like nearer two.

I think the sort of person who has left a baby this age to cry themselves to sleep

Gosh - for a minute I thought I was the only one!! Babies do cry - fact. If my dd cries in the day I am there in an instant so she knows that I respond. I agree with Krang....teaching them how to get a good nights sleep can only be a good thing.

Never really done it and would never have tried below 1 year. What I did used to do was leave the hairdryer on in the bedroom (hello global warming!) and that helped loads.

Boho - I did consider leaving the hoover on one night but then read about Wayne Rooney - apparently his mum did this and as an adult I believe he still needs to listen to the hoover to get to sleep.....

I think the sort of person who has left a baby this age to cry themselves to sleep...is a normal mother doing whatever she can to help her child learn to sleep and regain some sanity for her family.

That's what you meant to say, isn't it, Hunker?