ds 3.3 driving me insane... not listening to me at all...

[MrsBigD]

I know he's in the terrible 3s but... I'm at the end of my tether. No matter what it is 'don't run off/onto the road', 'eat your dinner', 'stop hitting your sister' etc. It's 'no'. I warn him 3 times then intervene, i.e. time-out/room or slapped bottom (that's for running off in the street, trying to get the message home that if a car hits him it hurts even more... - and please no debate about whether to bumslap or not... please )

Also he's teasing and 'bullying' dd (6y), which generally starts at teasing and then ends with him trying to clobber her over the head with something...

I've tried ignoring/walking away (when he's not at risk or putting dd at risk), tried time outs, tried threatening with 'I tell papa' which used to work, but lately even that threat doesn't get any response even though he knows that papa will 'punish' much more severely than mama), removed faviourite items, sent him to bed early and even resorted to very non-constructive shouting (new neighbours probably wonder what mad woman lives next to them )

The most infuriating thing is that at nursery he's an angel!

HELP!

I'm just about to put him in the garage!

I completely sympathise, my little boy is 37 months now and has stopped listening to me, and does things he knows I will be annoyed about. In fact he does the annoying things over and over. I'm hoping it's developmental and just a 'phase', but it really is wearing.
The only way I can see is to go back to doing the things that I thought he has out-grown; like tying the lower kitchen cupboard shut, so that he can't pull out the contents, or taking his reins out with me, as a threat more than anything.
I think at this age, he can't really look at me for long, and I have to go down on my knees and say 'look at Mummy!' over and over.
I think we will go to the docs tomorrow though, because he seems to have red ears and is rubbing them quite a bit, which can't be helping.
I always try to be kind to him, because it can't be easy having zero control over things and not being able to communicate properly, but I feel as if I am hardening and I don't like it.
I'm going to watch this thread to see if a more experienced mum gives some advice.

hehe i got one of those too!
he is 4 now and slightly improving. I think.
I count at him. it drives him insane. it is the only way i can get him to focus enough to listen to anything - though is usually done whilst keeping hold of a bit of him (hand / arm /jumper if fail to get hand or arm)
once my very tedious counting has finished, then i slowly and over-annunciate to make my point. works fairly well. not when he has lost the plot completely and is squawking on the floor - we tend to walk off if he does this, assuming situation is safe, or go "deaf" etc until he shuts up. oh dear do i sound like an unsympathetic mother? ah well.

I am sorry you are going through this I was excatky the same with DS and tried everything including slapping ( what a bad mother!!) but I just wanted him to grow up with respect and to be a nice well behaved boy - I think the key is perseverance - no easy answers!! sorry _ it did turn out that DS has ADHD - i am not saying you should think about this!! but DS still knows there is a line and he should not cross it, sometimes he does and it is hard to know whether it is delibrate or not but we have to work with that. DD 2.5 is at this stage and it is worse - she does the same wants to be so independent i.e wants to wak instead of going in pram but then runs off, doesn't listen......but what I realise is that we are not as hard on her as we were with DS - this last while we have started to clamp down - started naughty step and if she runs away either me or hubby carry her or take her out to car - she is getting the message but slowly!! hang on it there it is a battle of wills and because we have so much going on in our head and they only have this to think of sometimes they win!!

Good luck - keep up the energy and good luck with the battle - it will work out in the end and I am sure you are a brilliant Mum and will win the battle in the end.

Mine also going on 4 and getting better. At least it seems I get through to him now when I talk/warn a bit like gigglewitch.

Thing is they ARE physical at this age and only just begining to test the limits of how their body works. When he's wired, I just get on the carpet for a 5 minute wrestling match and the only way to end it is a tickling game. It does diiffuse tension.

Otherwise, cruel but it works: withdraw favourite toy until he complies annd apologises or else whattever the situation.

Good luck.

I know it is difficult. For me it helped to ease the situation by preempting as much bad behaviour as possible. E.g. instead of telling my dcs that they mustn't run into the road I would hold them by the hand when we were out walking (and talk to them about interesting things) so they didn't get a chance. When we were at home the doors were locked and the garden gate shut so they couldn't get out. When we were on the bus I sat next to them with an arm round them and talked to them non-stop to keep their attention occupied. And we did LOTS of positive practicing about road safety ("now we're getting to the road, what do we have to do before we cross, can you look out and tell me when it's safe"). And both ourselves and the childminder reminded them cheerfully and pleasantly at the start of every walk of how they had to hold on when they were out (no nagging though and no reminding of past bad behaviour: if they're in a bad mood when they set out, you're going to have trouble). When they were really little I used a harness, and later a gentle reminder that "if you can't walk like a big boy we'll have to use the harness" was enough to get effect.

Eating their dinner- I tried not to fuss too much about this one. As long as they can't get at eatables between meals they won't starve.

Hitting another child is different, as it's harder to preempt (they've got to be allowed near their siblings) and it is something you clearly can't allow. You might want to reserve the time out for this situation. Though there are probably ways of cutting it short, particularly if it starts with a period of teasing. Try to instruct your daughter to get up and leave when the teasing first starts.

It's not that I don't believe in punishing children, you have to. It's just that if you do it too often, you end up with inflation. So keeping an eye out to prevent all situations that can be prevented might make a difference; if punishment is very infrequent it will have be felt more deeply. I'm not saying let them get away with it once they have misbehaved, more that there are things that us adults can do (being that little bit more experienced) to stop at least some of the misbehaving before they've even thought about it.

I did not do the "when papa gets home", not just out of consideration for papa (and for the shortness of 3-year-old memories), but mainly because being the person in charge I wanted them to believe that I had all the confidence necessary to deal with any situation arising; I think belief in my strength actually made them feel safer.

I'd appraoch it the other way round. Instead of telling him off for things you don't want him to do, and feeling like a no no no no no machine, try suggesting better things to do. Needn't be verbal, in fact, it's almost better if it isn't.

Teasing sister suggests after some physical interaction. Get the cushions out, one each, and start a pillow fight. Or put on a DVD you can all run around and dance to.

Rather than telling off for running in the road, do the don't-walk-on-the-cracks game on the pavement, or the do-tightrope-walk-on-the-cracks game, or the run-a-stick-along-the-railings game, or the sit-on-the-edge-of-the-pavement-and-talk-about-the-wond-of-the-cars-whooshing-by game, or the -walk-on-the-garden-walls game.

Be present with your children.

oh fgs Pleides!

Yes pleaides - when I read this thread from top to bottom I assumed at first the 'cruel' thing you were bleating about was beating a child or smacking or something but no, it's about confiscating a toy!! Please!!! It's hardly going to mean a child needs lifelong counselling.

Ooh call the NSPCC now everyone, someone confiscated their child's toy.

Sorry if I sound mean but it was a little over the top Pleaides?

I think it's about getting effective strategies for each kind of behaviour; running off into the road, you do need reins. He has them on if he can't be trusted to hold your hand nicely. I know you don't want debate on your smacking but it is clearly an ineffective soluation, isn't it? Because you still have the problem; and a 3 year old WILL NOT EXTRAPOLATE from a smack, that a car will hurt them more, even if you tell them this. They can't make that connection. It needs to be more immediate; use reins!

Hitting his sister, get her over to you to be with you doing something nice so that she gets positive attention and it's removed from him (but distract him as well with another activity) eat your dinner - well, if he doesn't eat it or mucks around with it, you need to consistently remove it so that he knows mucking around has consequences.

I also think you need to talk to kids at mealtimes as much as possible to keep their attention and try to avoid mucking about arising too much.

And it's remembering that at 3 a lively boy needs loads of stimulation, loads of talking to, loads of playing with, loads of attention IF you want to keep them more or less out of trouble...

You summed it up perfectly of course Honoria.

Also want to add that I am sure things will improve for you. I have just realised that the strategies I have been using with my ds (now 4) finally seem to be working. For ages I was at a loss - time out, rewards, whatever, nothing seemed to make a difference. Of course he still tries it on but I think he now knows the limit (most of the time....)

....also (tentatively)....we have smacked for removing seatbelt in car. Not sure if they extrapolate etc, but I really felt it was the lesser of 2 evils (as opposed to possibility of going through the windscreen).

I am a great believer in that the use of positive language - ie tell them the things you do want them to do, not the things that you don't.
Dont run in the road - NO
Stay on the pavement - YES

Apparently the brain has a hard time computing negatives and often then has a reinforced message of the thing you don't want them to do.

It's hard to practice as we tend to automatically think of the negatives - not saying it's the perfect answer but worth trying to train our mouths & brains in a different way.

I agree KTN, that's a very good point that things don't always work immediately, it can take time but the thing is not to be panicked out of your strategy, stick with it because consistency really is important - and 3 year olds are so very young and need time to learn; we can't expect them to learn immediately and change unwanted behaviour in the blink of an eye.

Aye, on positive language.

How are children supposed to know what you want them to do if you don't tell them?

totally agree with + talk.
Talk to get attention and if you can't, talk to distract. Very good tip for mealtimes Honoriaglossop, forgot that one.