Think I have created an eating issue with DS-any tips on how t reverse this?

[smithfield]

Ds will be 3 in feb- since he was 18months (or around this time)he went from eating really well, to becoming fussier and fussier.

He now eats a really good breakfast, 2 weetabix-followed by bowl of cheerios-sounds a lot I know but he asks for more at breakfast.

Lunches are ok. Apparently he eats everything at nursery, and a whole panini at his nanna's. With me he generally eats but makes a fuss unless its cheese, cheese, cheese.(as in cheese sarnies)

The meal that has become an issue is tea time, although only the latter half of the week (first half of week at nursery so just has his cheese sandwich at home) Which is when he has a cooked meal for tea.

I try and feed him for 5-5.30 at the latest, but it seems whatever I do or make for him,he refuses to eat. We went away a short while ago and he ate the same amounts during the day but still ate all his tea at tea time the difference being on this occassion he was in a different environment, and his cousin (same age) is a good eater and ate the lot. So did he.

Thing is I think the tea time has become an issue for both of us. A bit of a battleground, as ds is quite stubborn (as am I).
Im probably more uptight this time of day as I've been working. I spend time making the food (sometimes I take time to do this, mostly lately I keep it short and simple for ease)....either way it seems to descend into a battle of the wills.
I've used naughty step and negotiating (eat these two spoons and you can finish etc). Ive tried to make it more fun, making pepper boats filled with rice....trying to make a game of it.

Whatever I'm doing is obviously not working. If anything its become 'more tension' than fun and its getting worse.
How can I reverse this stalemate with ds over tea time?

emma - what happens when they go to school and have to eat at certain times or at work or have their own children etc, we all need to fall into some kind of routine/ pattern. If everyone did what they wanted all the time it would be chaos imo. When could you ever plan things if you had 3 children and one wanted dinner at 5, one wanted it at 6 and one wanted it at 8?

In this house there is one meal time at 5pm and if you miss it (like dp usually does because he doesn't get home until 5.30 at least) then you eat whats left or you make your own or you go without. I am not a waiting chef, living my life to serve everyone else every minute of my day there are times when i want to clear up and sit down.

Oh well, chez Moondog can think of nothing grimmer than joylessly pinging food in the microwave so that people can graze mindlessly.
We sit together,eat together and talk.
But then I'm old fashioned like that.

Emma how old are your children? How long have you been living with those eating arrangements if you don't mind me asking?

Sitting around the table at a set time with dinner, whether it gets eaten or not is a huge part of family time in our house.

I never insist it gets eaten, I may tell DS(2.11) that he needs to eat some more veg if he tells me he is finished, but I never tell him to eat anything else that is on his plate.
We talk together whilst eating, and after about 30minutes we are normally finished, table gets cleared and anything left goes into the bin.
If they are finished after ten minutes they stay at the table with us til everyone is finished, making it unlikely they will say they are finished in order to do anything else.

I'll be honest, I didnt really trust DS to regulate his own food intake properly until I came on here, there was a rather long thread in which I felt at the time franny was talking rubbish, but I took on what she said (thanks franny btw, dont know if you know it made a difference!!) and it changed my attitude towards mealtimes, they are still set times, and there is a limit to snacks depending on whatahs been eaten at mealtimes, but I allow them to eat what they want.

I have noticed since, DD will eat as much as is put on her plate, no matter what the size of the dinner, there are also times she says afterwards that her tummy hurts, because she has eaten too much, I have caused that by making too big a deal of her eating all of her dinner and not allowing her to listen to her own body.

colditz's post of Mon 10-Dec-07 17:48:49 is very good advice, I'd try to follow that and see how it goes.

Yes,I've never forced my kids to eat anything in my life.There's plenty of stuff that I wish they would eat but they wont so my tactic is to offer and to say nothing when it is refused.

People get very antsy if you suggest not making children eat at meal times

the fact they may have to do so later in life is totally irrelevant IMO - they will probably have to work for a living as well, but we usually let them get around to being ready for that in their own time

I think different families put more or less importance on all sitting down together to eat the same thing at the same time 3 times a day

there are other ways than enforcing this on very young children - that still make eating enjoyable and don't mean you are running around preparing food at all hours

oh and thankyou VS!

Message withdrawn

LoveMyGirls:

How long have I been living this way? Since the day I left home I have been eating when hungry.

As to school: we are home educators so school not an issue at this point. If any of my children show an interest in going to school, the issues of having to ask permission to go to the loo, and having to wait until set times to eat will of course be part of their decision-making process (aspects of school life generally greeted by howls of incredulity by home educated children, I have to say).

As for work - the workers in this house are all flexitimers. They still eat when they are hungry. I was going to say "except in important meetings of course" but then thought of the number of times I'm in a meeting with 10 or so colleagues and at least two people are always eating something and noone turns a hair (unless someone is chomping away at a packet of biscuits without offering them around, in which case there might well be Words Said). My point is: there are jobs where you don't have to eat according to an external schedule. If a schedule is necessary, I would hope that my children are bright enough to adapt when the need arises, in the same way that I do myself. Just-in-time learning, that is.

"we all need to fall into some kind of routine/ pattern."

Indeed we do. And we do. It's just that it's a routine which suits everyone rather than being imposed by the parents from on high.

I tend to provide cooked meals when the first person gets hungry, and then other people partake either then or when they are hungry later. So I'm not cooking 14 different meals.

And just like everyone else, we tend to eat as a family with conversation and everything but it's not a sacred cow for me.

F&Z keeps saying really wise things IMO :-)

Not sure if this makes me an 'unfooder' but whilst dh and I pretty much eat 3 set meals, the dcs have a choice whether or not to join us during those times. Mostly, they eat very little and snack the whole day.

I would say that in the dcs' case, they are AWARE of the 3 set meal times, but eat when and what they like, pretty much, with us limiting the treats.

They are 4 and 1.

LoveMyGirls, I believe you asked what happens when they go to school etc and have to eat at set mealtimes. Well, both my dcs went to fulltime nursery when they were 1. dd is now at school. They eat at the set times there.

It is just at home, they want more freedom. And they also won't eat a lot of the things they eat at school/nursery. Of course, I could be firmer. But heck, I choose my battles. Food is one battle where the balance of power is in their favour - afterall no one can force them to eat anything, and I won't even try. They are pretty stubborn.

Food is relatively stressfree in our house. Dh and I positively enjoy it. We hope our dcs will be able to join us at the table when they are ready.

Eating at set times is not a problem as long as they aren't forced to eat at that time. Their is nothing wrong with telling them 'thisis when we eat' and encouraging them to eat then. Just don't ever press the issue of them eating.

If ds1 is hungry at 4.30, he will still be hungry at 5pm. I'm not going to let him snack at 4.30 and have him leave the meal I dish up at 5. If he is hungry, he will eat. I don't serve horrible food - if it is something he hasn't had and liked before, I do a side dish of something he does like.

I don't think he has ever got down from the table hungry. Not entirely full - yes. Cross at me taking a played-with meal away - certainly. But not hungry.

I'd second the comment about not requiring plates to be clean. Ds eats very well on the whole, but he only gets to have pudding (yoghurt and fruit normally) if he has had a reasonable amount of his first course. The logic is that, if he was hungry he would have eaten a reasonable amount of first course, and therefore a small pudding is fine - if not much first course he's not hungry and therefore doesn't need any pudding...

And, on occasions, he has gone to bed hungry and cross when he has refused to eat his first course properly and therefore not had any pudding (not had this occur recently - obviously learning!)

Mistlethrush- you see this is where I get confused cos, Other evening (prior to starting this thread) he did what is becoming the norm, refused to touch meal, pushed bowl away. then played with the food.

I took the dish away and then gave him half an apple which he scoffed and then asked for a banana. So obviously he is hungry.

So my question is... on the whole would the consensus be take food away after set time as Coldtits said-(I like the idea of setting a time limit 'for me') but 'not to' offer desert, such as fruit or yoghurt after??

By the way I have every respect for people doing things differently, wether that be to be an unfooder or not, but I just dont think the unfooder thing is for me...no offence.

Also Tinytim-you mentioned you did things differently beforehand (before you'd sought advice on here)....did it take long for things to turnaround after you changed your stance/tactic?

Not really, I never had a 'problem' with dd eating anyway, she had always eaten what I told her to eat, butI alwys told her to finish what was on her plate.

TBH I was probably giving her too much food as it was, so she needn't have finished her plate.

After a thread on which franny said how children regulate their food I gave DS more of an option with his food, he still has to join us at the set meal times, and will normally eat with us, but sometimes he just
isn't hungry so he doesn't have to eat anymore. I used to tell him he had to and I'd watch his diet very carefully.

He choose what he wants for lunch now and when he wants it, as it is only me and him here at lunch time. He'll generally not sit down for a proper meal or anything but ask for raisins, crackers or satsumas throughout the day (he doesn't choose crisps and chocolate like I expected he would).

My problem now is more trying to get DD to listen to her body, she learnt to ignore it and became used to eating her plateful rather than eating until she was no longer hungry.

At school it isn't a problem, she takes a healthy lunch and gets to choose what she eats from it, all I expect from her is that she eats fruit at snacktime.

Now when myself and DP have finished dinner(about 20/30) minutes, I start to clear up the table and she is more likely to leave something on her plate but it is a struggle for her to do so.

More often than not I like to give her too little on her plate so if she is still hungry she can ask for me.

Looking back now I'm sure it is what caused me to have problems with my weight fluctuating and increasing, my mother made me finish my plateful, but I never had much on my plate.

So when I started to cook my own dinners and those for other people I would pile the plate high, and force myself to finish it. Then after noticing how much weight I'd put on I would stop eating completely, that's not something I want for my daughter.

Also the dessert thing, if DD/Ds has eaten a good deal of their meal, but not finished and then asks for fruit or something after, I will allow it. I sometimes get bored of my dinner but am not completely full, I assume it is the same for children.

I wouldn't offer it though, if they are genuinely hungry, they will normally ask.

If they have made no attempt at eating a reasonable amount of their dinner, then no dessert of any form.

Thanks Tinytim-Funny what you said about you having to eat 'all' on your plate as a kid. Yep me too and I still feel guilty if I dont eat 'everything' on a plate-

One of the reasons people are larger now than previously IMO. I'm sure there was a time when finishing your plate was the ideal at dinnertime, maybe due to rationing, who knows, but it's obviously had an impact on our society.
If only people would realise.

No offence taken.

If a child is wanting fruit, it might be that they are needing particular nutrients. You know that feeling when you've GOT to have a banana and nothing else will do? I always reckon that's my body crying out for potassium. So if they want fruit, they might well be after the vit C or something. I'd always say "yes of course" and then offer the main course afterwards, myself.

I see your point emma, personally I'm more likely to say, 'Of course you can, just eat a bitof your dinner up first for me'.
The likelihood is they'll eat some of their dinner and then still eat the banana.

'Sfunny isn't it.

Nothing wrong with offering the main course and then the fruit, but there are some contexts where that's exactly the opposite of what we regard as the norm (melon or peach melba for starters...having cheese after dessert). So what makes it ok to eat melon first if it's a "starter", but it's important to have it afterwards if it's being a "pudding"?

I'm just being provocative

If I gave ds a total free rein over what to eat this evening he would choose cake and oranges and apples. (I hasten to add that cake is unusual in the house so he usually doesn't have that choice ). It would have a dire effect on his digestion I am sure - as he would eat probably 6 or more.... He just likes these and almost considers them a treat.

He doesn't have to eat all his main course in order to get them - just make a meaningful attempt unless he obviously doesn't like it (very unusual) in which case we will get an alternative first course.

He does get plenty of fruit etc during the day anyway - he has smoothie and often fruit at breakfast time, and at least one snack during the day (when he's at home) will be fruit.

Lunch is also much more of a browse - I normally give him a plate of options - often bread, cucumber, cherry toms, cheese, possibly sausage, and possibly some fruit. He then has what he wants - sometimes it will be a cheese sandwich with veg on the side, other times it will be cheese between bits of cucumber or on top of tomatoes - sometimes not much, or eaten after his nap out of a lunch box when out with the dog for a walk... I try not to get worried as long as he is eating a reasonable variety quantity over the week - I find this is a much better way to think of it than over a day as he will sometimes have an off day, but othertimes will seem to be able to eat and eat.

I don't think the importance is on where in the meal comes the fruit really. But if I've thoughh about, prepared and cooked a good meal for my family, I expect them all to at least sit at the tabl and go through the dinnertime routine, if they don't eat it that's fine, but even if their body is crying out for a banana they're likely to eat something and then have their banana afterwards, so they get extra nutrition. If I was to allow them the bananana and not to have to sit at the table, I wouldn't be surprised if they ate it and then cleared off, their momentary hunger being satisfied.