Giving a 2 year old a daily choc button as a reward for good behaviour

[boo64]

I have started giving ds (2.3) a single chocolate button at the end of the day when daddy gets home if he is a good boy all day.

It seems to really work as e.g. when we went for our walk today and he started messing around (as he has started doing recently - trying to sit down on the ground etc when we are walking) I just said 'oh remember what I said about having to be sensible to get your choc button' and lo and behold every time he slipped back into it, he stopped and was then really good all day.

So I'm using it as a bit of a threat 'stop x or you won't get your button'.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that you shouldn't really use food as a reward but this is just one little chocolate button so does that matter if it is working so well?

Generally he is a very good eater of fruit and veg and would pass over chocolate for fruit a lot of the time, so I don't have any concerns there but maybe there is a drawback something I haven't considered?

i suppose if it's over a long time it might become a problem but i'd be very hypocritical if i said don't do it at all. i've been bribing my ds (17months) for nearly a week now to take antibiotics - it's the only thing that works, apart from holding himdown and 'injecting' the mdeicine into his mouth and him screaming. far more pleasant to give him a little bit of chocolate.

on the other hand ds sometimes eats more than one button when i'm eating chocolate or a choccy biscuits and he 'steals' mine.

Agree with F&Z in principle about trying to encourage kids to see that the reward of being nice is intrinsic to the act itself - but at a very young age, a lot of what we're doing is trying to set up good habits, e.g. brushing teeth, holding hands with parent when walking near roads etc. If you need to use a "reward" to get the child to acquire these habits, then initially I don't think it's a problem.

Our DS went through a stage of refusing to let us brush his teeth (at 18mths, after acquiescing to this nightly for the previous year). We promised him "bubbles" and blew bubbles for him after each brushing for about a month. Now he just accepts that cleaning the teeth is part of the routine.

However, I do try to use distraction techniques more than stickers, just cause my imagination is usually more easily to hand than the sticker sheet.

Besides, don't you agree that kids learn to be nice and do nice things from watching the people around them do likewise? If you as a parent are doing things for them with a pleasant manner, than surely they learn that that is how people interact normally.

F&Z I see what you are trying to say but don't think rewarding my 2yr old DS for eating/trying his veggies or new foods is going to have a negative impact on society.

After all, I decide when to give a sticker after the meal, which I do along with lots of praise - it isn't used as a bribe to get him to do anything.

We all like to be rewarded occasionally don't we?

Washersaurus studies have shown that children who get a reward for doing things like eating veg, have negative associations with that activity as compared to children who are not rewarded with stickers etc. They are not daft and realise that if they need to be bribed / rewarded to do a certain activity, then that activity must be unpleasant. They make this assumption even if they previously enjoyed the specific activity!

It's up to you whether you choose to carry on doing it, of course. I don't think it will have a negative impact on society but it could have a negative impact on your son's relationship with vegetables.

In the case of antibiotics I would absolutely agree a bribe makes our job as parents a lot easier. I have used them in similar situations. This is a necessary, short term and unpleasant thing that they need to do - which carries no obvious (in their eyes) benefit to them. A bribe is a straight forward business proposition in this case I believe.

Acquiring good habits in general I agree is best done by parents modelling good behaviour and by explaining the benefit to the child themselves. Not "we brush our teeth because then we get bubbles" (nice imaginative bribe though! I think it is very sweet!" but "we brush our teeth because it keeps them healthy." I understand an 18 m o can't fully understand this, but you get my drift.

I could cite you loads of research stating the exact opposite actually Franny (topic of my MSc)

You haven't been reading Alfie bloody Kohn have you??

I wish I had the emotional energy to worry about this, to be honest. I am sure I am setting my children up for all sorts of emotional problems, but I bribe them to eat their veg with pudding (and I was bribed to try new veg, and I love veg), I bribe them to behave tyhemselves in town with a trip to poundland, and I bribe ds1 to try hid best to behave himself on the walk to and from school with a promise of sweets on friday..

I'm going to Parenting Hell.

Butlins.

ALLEDGEDLY

LOL moondog you know I love Alfie Kohn

more in the morning, it's late

Yes please do post more Franny. I'm ignorant but interested as far as this discussion is concerned.

However, like some other posters I feel uncomfortable about using food rewards as a principle. I haven't even dared use them for something very short term like taking medicine. (Luckily my kids have only had medicine that they find tasty and they were upset when the course is over!)

LOL Colditz I just read your post, how funny. We are down visiting my parents and they live near a Butlins. We drove past it and ds said "what is that Mummy? I know it is THE GATES OF HELL" he had just read a fairy tale book with stories about the devil tricking people etc before you worry what I am teaching him

anyway. Well I know Moondog is very knowledgeable about this and I cannot knock her academic work. But I am sure she agree with me that you can more or less always find studies to back up whatever you believe, and then another study to prove the opposite. In those cases, as a lay person I use my own instincts and judgements to decide what I think is right. Alfie Kohn's books make such sense to me as a parent and also as the child of a very manipulative parent. I think there are two sides to the story of using rewards and bribes as your default parenting method - one is, does it work? The jury is out on this as you will see. There are certainly studies to show that it doesn't. My own instincts also tell me that people bribed to do something are going to be less motivated to do that thing of their own accord once rewards stop. Also that children brought up to do the right thing for its own sake may have a more solid moral foundation than those bribed to do what other people want.

The second side is, even if bribes and rewards work, is it right to use this manipulative method with young children? As adults we would usually find these methods crude and patronising. The idea of a world based on people bribing other people to do things is rather depressing. Modelling good behaviour and waiting for the child to mature enough to be able to meet social expectations a bit better, is a longer term solution, and may take more work, but I think ultimately is preferable where we can manage it. We're talking in an ideal world here, so I am not trying to criticise anyone who uses bribes or rewards - as I say, I have done so myself and I am sure I will do again - but the OP is wondering about whether this is the best route to take, and I would say, no, building bonds with your child based on a relationship of trust and respect is more likely to pay off in the long run IMO.

With medicine I am fairly pragmatic. If I had to take some revolting medicine (I do personally take a revolting supplement) then I would try to take the taste away with something nice afterwards / during (I put the supplement in orange juice which makes it taste ok). I don't think there is any moral advantage in learning to take it plain if it is a horrible taste. For that reason I would happily give chocolate etc after medicine. It isn't a reward, it's a simple means of making it less unpleasant.

I love rading F&Z's posts. They are so eloquent. Thay make me feel all lovely.
Are we able to hve an adult debate here ? God forbid no . Moondog, enlighten me. What is the alternative. I wait with anticipation.

Oh Moondog is fab there won't be any shouting or nastiness or whatever

she knows all the big words too

I waver about rewards, but I absolutely don't like food as a reward. 'I have been good, so I get chocolate' is the sort of thought that leads to unhelpful behaviour in adults, imo.

Lately, I have been rewarding my DSes with songs and dances. Thankfully, this has always been in private. So far. The 'poo in the pot' dance is particularly .

I knew that to be the case F&Z. That is why, I was highlighting it - I do like a 'nice' debate. Are we going to have a competition as to who can bamboozle us with the biggest words ?

No I like to win, and I can't win that one

I don't disagree with what you say Franny.
In an ideal world we would all learn via natural contingencies (ie just getting to know and enjoy doing what is 'right'.)

I am primarily interested in people with very disordered patterns of learning (eg Autistic people ) who may never come to understand natural contingencies but who need to be able to operate in our world to some extent.

With these people reinforcers ('bribe' is a technical term in my field)can really really help.

The golden rule with a reinforcer is that it should always be faded (ie reduced) over time. It should never be in situ for ever.

Choosing inappropriate reinforcers and not fading them is where these things often go wrong, hence me doing my MSc in order to try and get it right.

I think that 'reward systems' are overused with neurologically typical children and underused with children with conditions such as Autism.

Having said that,I have used chocolate as a reinforcer to teach my dd to read. We don;t eat chocolate in this house and it is hugely attractive to her,so she was happy to sit and read with me for a small block of Toblerone.Over time I have faded that out and she know reads very happily and very well without it.

Actually,I am off to sort out a 'reward based system' this morning for a very confused and unhappy adolescent boy.
Initial analysis shows that up to 10 people are 'punishing' him and 'rewarding' him in different ways. Being Autistic, he just can't cope wioth this and unsurprisingly his behaviour is out of control.

my job is to get everyone to act in the smae way within a human reward based (ie overwhelmingly positive) system.

Ethics is a huge part of my MSc.

You only partipate, if you can win ? Winning is the most important thing.
No, no, no thats not the attitude. I will have to bribe you particpate F&Z

I do agree, that it seems that treats and bribes and incentives to behave well are very highly used these days. Far too much, possibly.

yes a bribe will usually work very well on me - I was brought up the same way most of us were, and our society is steeped in behaviourism really

Moondog I find that all fascinating. I have read Jimjams posting about reinforcers used with autistic children and I learnt a lot from that too.

Oblomov I think you would enjoy the lovely Alfie Kohn's book "Punished By Rewards". Even if you didn't agree with all of it (I didn't) it is an eye-opener.

F&Z Is Kohn, like 'how to talk' only more disciplined ?

Sorry. Ignore that. When will I learn, to do a search, before I post. I will order it from the library.

This is great - which other website could you post a simple question about choc buttons as a reward and get such a fab debate especially one including someone doing an MSc on the very subject!!

And yes, lovely to actually have a constructive debate without it getting nasty on here like most threads somehow manage to (ok slight exaggeration)

Choc buttons as a reward all round for us I think!

LOL. Lets all have a chocolate button, for good beahviour.

I have no problems with chocolate buttons and I don't think you're doing anything terrible. Afterall you feel it's working at the moment, what more does a parent want?

Personally (especially with young children) I prefer a quick consequence if they do something they shouldn't. Then lots of praise when they're being really nicely behaved. Oh wow you help by hand so nicely! I have no problem with the use of food on an ad hoc basis. My youngest was so patient at the hospital the other day, on the way out I told him we'd stop at the shop for a treat.

I suppose I like consquences, praise and rewards out the way once an activity or moment has passed. But then for everyday life I'm not keep on rewards charts for everything. So that their behaviour is controlled & judged to an inch of their lives. If they're going through a bad patch yes but not all the time.

One reason I'm not easy with one reward for an entire days behaviour is that what if they do something wrong? As children do. That one mistake or that tantrummy 2 hours is then dwelled on for the whole day. Rather than moving on. If they then are nice for the day do they then earn it back? In that case you'd havw a child behaving quite unnaturally