my kids have no respect for property. how do i drum it into them?

[gringottsgoblin]

ds has just poked a hole in the wall because the plaster was a bit crumbly. wouldnt be the end of the world if it was the only occasion but both him and his brother (7 & 8) regularly break stuff because they either cant be bothered to be more careful or because they actually try to destroy it.

i dont know what else to do. we have banned sweets, tv, confiscated toys, thrown or given toys away, stopped pocket money and everything else i can think of. it hasnt worked, they just dont care. we have had reward charts but i cant give them stickers because they havent destroyed something, thats just silly.

so what do i do? he is in his room cos i couldnt think how to deal with it off the top of my head without repeating stuff that hasnt worked

next time he gets money use it for repairs or to replace broken things?

Sounds like you are being strict with the consequences, which is good.

Perhaps your need to go through with them what you expect in a calm family meeting. Its hard to work out how and what to give rewards for but this might be something more positive. I don't know perhaps stickers for a good day, or even for shorter periods like an afternoon of good behaviour.

Take the chance when they are in a good communicative mood to set down some ground rules very clearly. Explain the rewards for staying withing the rules and boundries, perhaps taking the emphasis away from punishment, maybe they just feel they are naughty bays and thats what is expected.

Good luck its not any easy age, they will test and try you to your limits .

That would be boys not bays

Thinking of puppy training (which seems very relevent to kids this age) . Perhaps they are bored, puppies are often destructive when bored.

They are close enough in gae to do similar activites and play together, perhaps they need another outlaet to vent their energies.

the reason given for stopping pocket money was to pay for damage. they dont care.

we have had calm family meetings where we have set down the rules. they last maybe an hour. sticker charts they love, but they can save up stickers all week and then have a day of being utterly vile and either lose all the stickers for the week because if i take one they seem to think its a challenge to lose the lot, or if i am not removing stickers for bad behaviour they still get rewards even when they really dont deserve it. i am really careful to not make them feel they are naughty, if they are good they get loads of praise and treats, but its not enough to stop them smashing things.

how would you train a puppy? i do my best to get them out of the house a lot because they really do need that but this morning they were playing really nicely (so i thought, they were happy and playing i didnt realise he was digging a hole in the wall) and they didnt want to go out so we didnt. they werent bored at all.

i do sometimes think they just forget, other times they just play games where the object is to smash things up. i know thats boys to an extent but surely we cant just let them do it because of their gender?

Not really experienced this, so may be talking rubbish, but what about making them responsible for property? they could each be given jobs to do re tidying, cleaning and fixing - they can help fix the wall for example. They can clean up mess that they spill. This hopefully should give them a positive sense of pride - lots of praise etc. for helping. Plus you get boys who will grow up to be the type of men women dream about!

Also perhaps you could get robust contruction toys that are meant to be build and then smashed up. And/or keep boxes, packaging and anything else that can be smashed up (preferably outside, or they have to clear up after themselves.)

If its something that belongs to them, logical consequences play a big part, ie you destroy a toy, it doesnt get replaced. You leave your bike outside and someone nicks it, you dont get another one etc.

As with everything kids do, it all seems to be attention seeking.

Poking a hole in the wall, i would have done exactly that, time out in your room to have a think about what you did for 5 minutes. Then consequence, you have to contribute out of your pocket money towards the cost of repairing. No big telling off, no big lecture, no getting angry, just matter of fact type of thing.

thing about letting him fix the wall is that to him it will be fun. it doesnt really drive home the fact that dh doesnt want to do it. i already make them clean up after themselves, a spill is an accident, this was deliberate.

i dont think he was attention seeking, quite the opposite! dh found the hole, ds didnt tell us. 5 minutes in his room doesnt really compare to the amount of time its going to take to fix. as i said its not just this thats the problem, i dont think this is a huge crime but its just the fact thats its so constant, we have to keep an eye on them all the time or something else is broken. there have been days where i have had to sit them both on the sofa while i sort out the chaos because as fast as i can fix one disaster they have created another!

im sorry to keep shooting down ideas, i do appreciate them. as i said we have tried everything we can think of but they just dont seem to care. i dont want them getting arrested for vandalism in a couple of years because they havent caught on that you cant behave this way

Once they have earned a sticker, you cant then take it away. Otherwise the reward chart then becomes another punishment.

Have you tried writing down the rules and what the consequences are for breaking them???

You sound like your at your wits end!!!

What do you usually do when they break something etc, etc.

The fact that you have to keep an eye on them all the time, they have your attention all the time.

Kids like to be in the spotlight, if you make a big fuss when they do something 'naughty' they are then in the spotlight.

Maybe they need to be told how goddamn naughty it is, and how it is something babies do, and would they like it if you told all their friends that they act like babies?

At 7 and 8 I would be going ballistic, it's not on.

Interesting you say they would enjoy fixing the wall. Perhaps they need to be chucked out in thegarden with a pile of stticks, some cardboard and a roll of sellatape, and told 'Make something!"

i know law, but that just means they can be as horrid as they like once they have enough stickers to get the reward and i really resent giving them stuff when they have been like that. maybe they just react badly to the sticker charts, i dont know. or maybe i am doing sticker charts wrong. might start a thread asking how people use them cos just giving stickers for good behaviour seems to make things worse. it would be hard to have a chart specifically about not trashing things as we often dont find the damage for some time.

i have been very explicit about consequences, we have tried writing down rules to help them remember them, i have got them to come up with the rules, the rewards, the consequences. it just flies out of the window after a while. their desire to smash things up just takes over

Probably way off the mark here, but could you ask a Police Community Support Officer to speak to them and explain about vandalism, criminal damage etc? Ask them to emphasise how serious it is to deliberately damage things, even if it's your own house. Maybe then they will form an action-reaction train of thought and it might make them think twice.

They need an outlet. Also...

Extreme, but maybe it needs to be extrme - every time they break something, takea toy they play with and smash it with a hammer in front of them.

Teach them the reality of how it feels to have your possessions routinely destroyed.

my last post must have taken ages to type!

they are not in the spotlight all the time, they just need to be supervised or at least checked on regularly. i have 4 kids, these are the oldest so i cant spend all my time with them but i have to be around iyswim. usually the punishment is whatever i can think of at the time! all the stuff i listed in the first post. they know there is a consequence, it might change but they know something unpleasant will happen, they just seem unable to retain that information! today i thought i would leave doing anything til i had really thought about it as all the usual stuff obviously has no effect. and i have thought, and i cant come up with anything new so im on here.

ds does love making stuff, he hoards cardboard, bottle tops, all sorts of thing so he can make stuff. he has lego so his own creations and his lego can be broken up. just not our sodding walls! you are absolutely right about telling them but tbh they could probably recite it all back to me i have tried ranting at them so often. i think they might be starting to become desensitized to it hey have heard it so much

I threatened my last suggestion with my excessively destructive four year old. It did work, to an extent.

would they do that sidge? they wouldnt just think i was overreacting?

escapefrom i have theratened to smash up their toys but it just seems so extreme. i wouldnt feel comfortable doing it but it might be the only way i suppose. it certainly has shock value and they might remember that for a while

I know, its frustating.

You have to have rewards and consequences, one without the other wont work.

Perhaps a sticker chart and reward every tinest bit of good behaviour, which you cant take away and if they have enough stickers, they get the reward. After all they must have behaved good at some point to get the sticker.

Then the rules and consequences, if you damage something you get something taken away, ie no tv for a day, no computer, no whatever is important to them.

That way you have a balance, bad behaviour - consequences. Good behaviour - reward. Might not work immediately, but shouldnt take them long to get the idea.

we do all sorts of rewards and consequences, just without the chart. sweets on way home from school, trips out, pocket money. i always tell them they are getting it because they have been good and how. i find that sticker charts mean they know they have something coming, so if they are naughty they still get something nice so it doesnt matter. surprise treats means they have to be good all the time as they dont know when its coming (it works sometime lol). we have always done this so its not like its new to them

GG - Think of it like this. Toys are not a 'right', they are a privilidge. You have a right to live in a home that is not being destroyed systematically by two children who just don't care, or cannot comprehend, the misery it is causing.

It is extreme, and it would indeed take a lot to push me to do it, but I do not think you would have to do it more than twice in total. First for the shock, second to make sure they know you will do it every time.

its certainly something to think about ef. have to log off now as dh is back with ds1 & 3 (ds2 missed out on going to park) but thanks very much for all posts, has helped

GG - I think they would - why not ask, you've nothing to lose!!

what do you usually do then???? they have made a whole in the wall and got sent to their rooms, what do you say, what do you do, etc?????

I think your posts demonstrate why sticker charts don't really work.

What is wrong with ds enjoying fixing the wall? Is this about punishment or teaching him responsibilty? He damages the wall, he pays for it and fixes it himself. Then maybe you could direct his energy towards other jobs around the house like washing the car.

Also perhaps clay/plasticine might be a toy your boys would enjoy. Do they have access to their messy play things whenever they want or do you only allow this sometimes?