my kids have no respect for property. how do i drum it into them?

[gringottsgoblin]

ds has just poked a hole in the wall because the plaster was a bit crumbly. wouldnt be the end of the world if it was the only occasion but both him and his brother (7 & 8) regularly break stuff because they either cant be bothered to be more careful or because they actually try to destroy it.

i dont know what else to do. we have banned sweets, tv, confiscated toys, thrown or given toys away, stopped pocket money and everything else i can think of. it hasnt worked, they just dont care. we have had reward charts but i cant give them stickers because they havent destroyed something, thats just silly.

so what do i do? he is in his room cos i couldnt think how to deal with it off the top of my head without repeating stuff that hasnt worked

I agree Honoria. As I said earlier, the hole thing reminds me of a little boy picking a scab- somewhere in the back of his mind he probably knew he shouldn't do it but it was just too interesting to stop!

I also agree with what you said earlier about having to change your expectations. Having four is hard enough without setting everyone impossibly high standards.

Not read thread but an idea to satisfy that need for picking holes in walls - buy one of those excavation / archaeology kits where they have to scrape at a bit of plaster til they find the dinosaur bones or whatever. Hours of fun!

But on the behaviour front - the only thing I can think of is that you may be so busy thinking up consequences that they don't link the one with the other. If they are given time out in room, that is the consequence. Don't then follow it up with sticker / treat removal. Consequence should immediately follow bad behaviour. They're not like us, they don't link the two unless it's really clear and immediate.

thanks Star. In my humble experience, many parenting issues can be made a little less stressful by changing your expectations. TBH if I had four just keeping them all in one piece at the end of the day would be ALL I would expect of myself

this sounds really familiar - my 6 year old is very similar.

I would try and calmly discuss with them what they feel like when they are doing things like that. Then ask them how they think it makes you feel. Then ask them if they think it is a good thing to do. Talk about why they did it. Tell them that it is not something they can do.
Talk to them about being able to trust them to behave - and what happens if you can't trust them - eg you won't be able to leave them to do things on their own - they will have to stay in the room with you where you can see them (just like a toddler).

Ask them for suggestions on how a) to stop them doing things like that and b) how to go about repairing the damage - let them make suggestions until you can all agree on the answer. It may be they mend it, or give up something - eg a forth coming treat to put towards the cost of replacement or repair.

Somehow yo have to get through to them that they need to have a sense of responsibility for the world around them.

Tell me about it Honoria - I only have three to deal with! Okay, so we go to get dd1 from school with dd2 dressed as a teletubby and ds still has his lunch around his mouth, but we get there!

Honoria - i think we are saying the same thing basically, give more attention.

I dont think many children who behave badly are using manipulation or are doing so in malice. Its not a concious decision to behave badly. For example when my son is sitting quietly, i tend not to notice, because he is sitting quietly and i have no cause for concern. If he is behaving badly, i will notice. So the message i am giving is i take more notice of you when you are behaving badly.

A lot of people dont see the point of commenting when kids sit quietly, doing something constructive, as thats whats expected. By rewarding the time when he sits quietly whether that be a sticker, priase whatever i am now giving the right message.

When kids have been a nightmare all day and then do something good, we tend to ignore it, they have got on my nerves all day, so il be damned if im going to give praise for the slightest little thing etc.

Hope that makes sense!!

I agree, Law, it's very very easy to harbour resentment when kids have been a nightmare - the last thing you feel like doing is praising them, when they've been horrors all day! However hard it is though, as adults we're the ones who have to rise above those feelings and give praise where it's due.

I must admit some people find this easier than others; I'm pathetically easy going and laid back and I just find it easier to forgive, forget and move on, than others who have a stronger personality perhaps; I've read on here posts from a few people who find the resentment really hard to let go of, who find it hard to move on basically. I guess often they are strong, stubborn characters and likely to have kids who are similar, so it's a recipe for difficulties!

There are advantages to being a complete wuss, you know

I have often heard the theory about praising the good - your example of praising when they are sitting quietly occupying themselves. My problem is if I try that - they stop occupying themselves and start wanting constant attention leaving me wishing I had kept my mouth shut and mentally cursing all parenting gurus !

Back to op, lower your expectations, dont expect kids to play quietly, its GOOD behaviour, reward it, with whatever.

Playing unsupervised upstairs, stick your head round the door every now and then, to say well done, im pleased, give a sticker or whatever. Praise the tinest bit of good behaviour. As bad behaviour tends to happen when they feel that their good behaviour has gone unnoticed.

throck - just trying to offer some alternatives, whether they work or not for other people i cant say!!! (will now leave, sheepishly, tail between legs and stop talking rubbish!!)

SMACK THEM!!!!!!!!!

throckenholt, I know what you mean in that if they remember that you are there they expect you to keep them occupied and by praising them while they are playing nicely alone/amongst themselves you draw attention to yourself.

But you can also praise straight afterwards, either when they come to you and ask you do something with them or when you hear that the cooperative play is turning into bickering. If things start getting out of hand, I walk pretending I hadn't noticed it was getting out of hand, eg 'You two have been playing very nicely together. Now, who wants to listen to a story/do some painting/go to the park?

otherside - i agree with that, with my son, i can say well done and give him encouragement to continue, thats a really good picture, keep up the good work kinda thing, while he plays, other people might have to adjust it slightly to suit.

My point being dont let it go unnoticed, perhaps i didnt use the best example.

I am sure your approach is probably better - and I do try and do it - but somehow I often get the timing wrong !

throckenholt - when my dds are playing well I often just tend to ruffle their hair as I pass or give them a quick kiss. The other thing is to be really specific - don't just say that they are being good, comment on their ball skills or their lego tower, or say how lovely it is to see them reading. Yes, they might then get you to join in but that is what they need. Nothing is more precious to them than your time and attention. It means I do most of my housework in the evenings when I am exhausted, but I consider it's a small price to pay for feeling like I have a balanced relationship with my dcs at the end of the day.