I've heard about heuristic (sp?) play, does anyone know about it please?

[saythatagain]

For the life of me I can't even remember where I heard it being discussed, or maybe I was just ear-wigging! It sounded very interesting so first port of call for advice is, of course, mumsnet. TIA

Start your own Avi. I couldn't find what I wanted either, so I did

here's the thread but it has degenerated as usual

threads I start have a habit of doing that

F&Z

Thanks so much for the document. My ds 15 months but I can adapt.

You can tell I'm a first time mum - I'm so excited - I loathe his plastic noisy toys so I'm running with your system.

To adapt - Have an old bin (cleaned of course), with loads of stuff that I think is suitable for his age group. Just cleaning all the stuff now - contains eg. tennis ball, tea strainer, my old crotched indian stuff I use to cover all electical goods, rubber ice cube tray.

Does this sound right.

Also I'm going to try it out tonight - in his room - to make it more of a play room and get him comfy in it.

Sound OK? Am I on the right track or is he too old?

Mumsville, just adapt it however you think it will best suit your child. These are just suggestions and there are no rules except making sure the objects are safe for your child.

How mobile is your son? Most walking babies don't want to sit down by a basket and play. Older crawling babies will usually get more from combining interesting receptacles and holders with the objects rather than just the basket objects. So to your collection of interesting stuff, add some big tins (ie biscuit tin etc), shoeboxes, cardboard tubes, small straw baskets (the sort you get toiletry gift sets in) and so on. If necessary show him how you can post stuff in the box / tube etc. Then let him get on with it.

However your ds will soon show you how he likes playing. Some older children do love the treasure baskets, but most will play in a more focused way and for longer periods, with the older 'toddler' style play discussed in the document.

Oh also the bin - is it shallow enough so that he can easily lean in and get whatever object he wants?

Ah so now I know ds (1yo) is a "heuristic player" and that's why he's only interested in playing with wooden spoons, clothes pegs, saucepans and the like!!

("Toys" get a cursery few minutes play then off to the kitchen to poke things through the cat flap...)

Yep, I think this clicks with a lot of parents when they hear what it involves. As pointed out below, it's a just a term to describe a style of play that babies are drawn to naturally

And LOL at cat flap

I wish I could provide mobile cat flaps and letter boxes at my classes - they would be very popular

Have been watching this with interest. I use a basket in my class with 5 and 6 year olds. It's a nurture class, and I have about 8 or 9 children. One of the things that they may have missed out on is play like this. I remember reading on here about it about a year ago. I too, had great fun sourcing it.

We put it out on a baby towel( with teddies onit) and I sit on the floor with the child. One of the favourite things is a paper lightshade which can go in and out like a concertina. The other favourite is a mop head which become many things- I can often be found with it on my head like a wig.

I was aked to speak about it at a recent conference and was really pleased about the reaction I got- so many were taken with the idea- the word is spreading!!!

Oh here we are - I was just sitting thinking about what heuristic play means for older children. That is really interesting sammac, I have never heard of this being done with older children before. I don't know what a nurture class it - could you please tell us about it?

I have seen / heard about nature tables and 'interest tables' in schools, for older ones. I think these are nice, but I don't think the children are encouraged to experiment with the objects, in the same way that we are discussing here. I think they are just meant to look at them, touch them carefully and discuss them. Which is great, but I think it is important that the children can 'use' them in their own way.

More in a bit as ds wants me.

I was thinking about the type of activity that ds likes best (he is 4) and most of it is what I would call heuristic play. He likes playing with sand, water, mud, stones, sticks, grass cuttings, etc etc etc. He does strange and complicated things with these in a very focused and determined fashion. I think they are vital to him learning about the world and making sense of it.

I think the kind of play that he does in our garden, in the park, at the beach and in the woods is fantastic, organic play and is a seamlessly natural part of our life as Fillyjonk was talking about earlier. I think I get a bit more of what you were saying now, Filly. Ds is totally capable of making his own opportunities for play now, and has the materials available to do so, and I think these experiences are in a way 'better' - more 'real' and more fully experienced - than more contrived activities I might arrange for him to have - for instance playing with water in the (really excellent) basement at the Science Museum.

However he has only lately been capable of collecting his own materials for this play without my intervention (will now insist on bringing home bucket of special pebbles rather than me saying "ooh, shall we take these home and you can play with them?"), and we are lucky in that we a) have a garden b) are close to a park c) have access to countryside and beach. I know there are lots of children who don't have those, and I think for those children, to have this kind of play arranged for them artificially, by adults at a nursery or play centre, would be much much better than to never have access to this kind of play. I think that's comparable with what we were talking about earlier, with regard to the pre-made baskets v. letting your child forage for their own materials.

"This is fromwww.nurturegroups.org/pages/what_is_a_nurture_group.html" the Nurture Network and gives lots of further information.

I work in a mainstream school and work with about 8 children. Most of these children are not in position to learn through the formal curriculum, so we do amost of our learning through play. I have spent lots(of time and money) over the summer making up story sacks and resources to take this further when I go back.

Sammac I really enjoyed reading this and particularly liked the first and fifth points

Loads and loads and loads of emails from people about heuristic play. This isn't all stuff that comes instinctively to parents.

F&Z - ds is 4 and if I gave him a selection of cardboard tubes from wrapping paper, kitchen rolls and loo rolls (lax about germs in this house!) he'd be in heaven! he can play with them for hours!

he collected and played with pinecones and shell for a long time in France

(off to gather objects for 10 month old dd)

Oh excellent - I love hearing all these experiences - please keep them coming

Frannyandzoey, glad you took the time to find out more. It is really interesting and the Network is a great organisation. As you rightly said, a lot of it doesn't come instictively, and I am very non-judgemental about the parents that I deal with-I have to be. Unfortunately I am met with a great deal of apathy, and many people (including colleagues) are of the impression that it is a behaviour unit that I run- which is so not the case, although there is often challenging behaviour. If you knew some of the circumstances and home lives of these children, which I am obviously not going to go into, then it's understandable how they behave- all behaviour is communication. This year has been hard because the children are the same age as my ds and naturally I have been comparing his life to theirs and it's so sad. He is aware that I work with children and is very kind at giving his old toys, books etc( is it necessary to say that I get no budget)It's had an impact on dd too, as she wants to be a child psychologist to help children when she leaves school(she's 13) I'll stop bleating on now

Fran ds is 15 months and can walk and reach inside the bin. I tried out the bucket tonight. He lovd it - was engrossed.

Need bigger box/basket and more stuff so off to charity shop tomorrow.

It's true - kids seem to prefer natural stuff to the big colourful toys (the noise drives me nuts).

Thanks

Message withdrawn

Hoorah mumsville. You have turned into a treasure hoarder I bet - I can't walk past a charity shop without saying "I'll just pop in and - OH! look at THIS!" Plus casting an acquisitive eye over relative's trinket cabinets

Try places like Wilkinson's or The Range for interesting kitchen stuff if you haven't enough at home to spare. Many things are plastic but you can get nice sieves and whisks (whisks REALLY popular for some reason), metal chains, bits and bobs. Let me know if you find any great sources of things! Oh and don't forget citrus fruit and other interesting hard fruit and veg.

Sammac I am going to take this phrase away and keep it in my head:

"all behaviour is communication."

Oh Danae where did you get the stainless steel bottles etc? What a good idea.

Yes children seem to thrive on getting on with their 'work' if an adult is present just sitting quietly observing. It's a very relaxing activity for a parent if you can find time to do this. I personally find it very hard as my natural inclination is to be either interfering, 'teaching', correcting or escaping to do my own stuff . My work at the baby group is one of the most relaxing parts of my week as for about 15 minutes I have nothing much to do other than sit and watch the children playing.

Oh AND

you are all rotten piss takers about "The Document"

I know it sounds poncy but what else do you call a piece of text like this? It isn't an article. It isn't a leaflet. It isn't an essay. It's a ruddy document. Isn't it?

Message withdrawn

you are you are

you're all laughing at TD I know you are

all the lurkers are emailing me going "Can I have The Document har de har har"