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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Please help me with my 4 year old - he cut the cat's whiskers off this morning

98 replies

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 11:54

This is an ongoing saga... every morning he gets into the kitchen by takinfg the chain off the latch, and does something.

Last week, he took raw sausages and ate them, dropped raw eggs on the living room floor, got my sharp knife from the back of the surface and cut large wedges of cheese off the block, went into the bathroom and made papier mache tissue sculptures in the bath...

I tell him off - he apologises, can't give a reason for why he does this, and promptly does it again.

I leave food out for him, temptingly in front of the computer - he either eats it and goes on the mooch, or ignores it and goes on the mooch.

I lock the kitchen door with a chain - he stands on chairs, toys, piles of cushions...

I tell him he must wake me up, and if he does he can have choc spread on tost for breakfast - didn't work.

I provide a big pit of mud and stuff at the top of the garden - he loves it, but it hasn't slowed him down.

I have tried setting my alarm for six, he started getting up even earlier, was exhausted and horrible for a week.

he consistantly ignores the things I ask him not to do, like 'Don't bring mables downstairs. Any marbles I find downstairs go in the bin. You can play with them in your bedroom.' - He now has no marbles left. Again.

What am I doing wrong here? There is a planet chart in WHSmiths that he covets - I have told him if he stays out of the ki6tchen for 7 mornings (and he has an extremely GOOD grasp of numbers!) I will buy it for him - he only managed 1!

Help meeee!

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

HonoriaGlossop · 30/07/2007 13:06

I would bolt the kitchen door. You can get bolts that have a lock and key so that he couldn't simply climb on furniture to unbolt it. You lock it at the end of the day and take the key to bed with you!

I think he's too young, and his impulses are too strong, for the rewards you are dangling for him. Getting a chart if he stays out for 7 days is too non-immediate for him.

I'm the wooliest lentil weaver there is when it comes to 'discipline' for children, however I think your ds needs immediate consequences. What happens to him at the moment, for instance when he got in there and ate the sausages? What did you say/do?

ladylush · 30/07/2007 13:08

I agree with HG about the 7 day reward being too distant

Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:09

He doesn't have things to play with in his room because he shares with his baby brother, and when he did have toys in there they were running riot until 10pm every night, and I have one big cleanup job the next day! Without the toys he settles quite well at night. He does have books, but all his toys are downstairs and he can't read yet - and he is allowed in the living room, can switch the computer on and log onto the internet and pull his favourite sites off

Unfortunately they don't have a bedroom door, because the room is so tiny all I can fit in it is a cot and a bed - and I had to take the inward opening door off to do that. Plus if there was anything noisy he would stand there all night fiddling with it and waking his brother up - I had to take the mobiles out for this very reason.

OP posts:

katz · 30/07/2007 13:10

if your looking for a good star chart then i would recommend this one space chart we've used the princess one with our dd. This one has rewards at reg intervals but builds to one major reward

Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:11

There is also a punishment for going in the kitchen before I am up - he is not allowed on the computer all day. If he stays out of the kitchen he gets ample computer time - which he loves.

Maybe 7 days is too long then?

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CarGirl · 30/07/2007 13:12

Rewards at the end of each day?

oxocube · 30/07/2007 13:13

out of interest, will the cat's whiskers grow back?

ladylush · 30/07/2007 13:19

Yes I think 7 days is too long. Could you possibly make a sticker chart whereby he gets a star everytime he doesn't go in the kitchen early morning? Then get him to put the star on himself and make a fuss of him while he puts the star on etc, then give him an instant reward like doing something with him on the computer. If all goes well for a few days, he gets his space thingy from the shop. Just a suggestion. We had terrible problems with ds and sleeping. He would wake 4 times a night (he just turned 3). We made a 'Not waking up in the night' chart and it really worked. We would do the star bit in the morning (with lots of praise)and before bedtime (as an incentive).

HonoriaGlossop · 30/07/2007 13:22

I think he's shown you clearly that 7 days is too long!

If you find him in the kitchen when he's been told and told that he mustn't, (and it's a clear safety issue) I think a loud "DS you are NOT to come to the kitchen" and take him straight to his room (or a time out zone) and tell him he will have some time alone. Four minutes would be the 'accepted' time if you listen to the Tanya Byron types!

I rarely used this and don't advocate it much however, I think this safety issue is so important that you need something like this.

Stopping him using the computer, again, I think is too non-immediate. He will have forgotten by the end of the day, why he's not using it; unless you constantly remind him, which would be negative and counter productive.

He needs to be immediately removed from the scene I think.

scattyspice · 30/07/2007 13:30

All I can say is GOOD LUCK.

You sound like a brilliant mum btw.

wannaBe · 30/07/2007 13:33

out of interest, how much time a day does he spend on the computer/watching tv? There's a lot of research that shows that the amount of time spend on computer/games console/television can have a negative impact on children's behavior. I've certainly noticed that if ds is kept occupied with other things his behavior seems to be a lot calmer than if he's allowed to watch a lot of tv.

Maybe it's worth trying to cut back computer time signifficantly, or perhaps even limiting it to weekends only to see if this makes any difference? Password protect the computer so he can't get on it.

wannaBe · 30/07/2007 13:39

also how is his diet? Apart from the odd raw sausage that is . cutting out colourants/additives can also have a huge impact. And sometimes additives can be given without even realizing it so this is by no means a reflection on you.

I also think that it's important to have a sit down and have a chat about animals and the fact that we respect them. While I realize that some people think it's highly amusing he cut the cat's whiskers off, it is actually cruel, and in my house that would have been very severely punished, such as by removal of favourite toys for a considerable period of time.

Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:40

he spends about 20 minutes to an hour on the computer on the days I allow him to use it.

the problem with punishing him for going in the kitchen is that he covers his tracks so effectively - he will relock the door, and I don't find out he has been in until I find great big wonky holes in the cheese, or broken eggs covered in cushions and carefully spread baby wipes...

No more 7 day waits then. I will institute a sticker chart, stick it on the kitchen door, and when he has 'earned' a set amount of stickers, he will get the planet chart. Ias this better?

what shall I do about the immediate punishment thing?

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Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:42

I agree wannabe, it is cruel and he has been told off and made to apologise to the cat, but to be honest I have so many bloody issues with him at t5he moment I don't want to stick another spoon in the pot.

OP posts:

HonoriaGlossop · 30/07/2007 13:44

I still think you need a lockable bolt on the kitchen door. Wouldn't that stop him getting in at all?

I think immediate punishment that works with this age group is something like the time out idea; removing them from what they're doing and giving them time alone.

Also, why not try tempting him into your room in the mornings? Tell him before he goes to bed that if he comes in to see you when he wakes up, you will have a treat for him. Make him want to come straight to you!

Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:45

Cutting out computer time and television time makes him worse - he NEEDS to sit and be distracted for a while every day. I have tried this, and the Ed psych agreed with me, FWIW.

I also dropped all the addatives, every single one, out of his diet for about 6 months, and it made no difference - and his behavior didn't get worse when I reintroduced them. His diet is very plain anyway. but thank you for all your suggestions, they are honestly a[preciated.

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Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 13:46

Lockable bolt may indeed solve it - but what on earth could I tempt him into my room with?

OP posts:

ladylush · 30/07/2007 13:48

Immediate punishment - you could try time out on naughty step or in his bedroom or if he is on the computer switch it off and tell him why you are switching it off. Do you get him to clear up with you when he makes a mess? If he likes exploring the contents of the fridge maybe you could try doing some cooking or baking with him. Have you read Toddler Taming by Christopher Green? Some good advice therein. Does he go to school or pre-school?

HonoriaGlossop · 30/07/2007 13:49

What does he like best?

Could the computer be moved into your room?

Food?

A little fridge that you can fill with a special ds snack - I don't know, raw sausages, cat food?

CarGirl · 30/07/2007 13:51

As a complete aside do you get weekly help from homestart if not ask your health visitor to refer you

ladylush · 30/07/2007 13:51

I take my hat off to you anyway EF - he sounds delightful but a handful. Hope you get a night out every now and then.

flightattendant · 30/07/2007 13:55

Oh golly my ds did exactly that a few months ago.
Poor cat is fine though her width gauging facility is slightly impaired

Different story last year when he was 3 and painted her blue. (With gloss) That was expensive. The vet wouldn't meet my eyes.

No advice but following the thread with avid interest!

Notquitegrownup · 30/07/2007 13:56

No extra advice to add, but just wanted to send a word of support, and agree that you sound like a brill mum and your ds sounds wonderful - if a handful.

Lol at apologising to the cat! I made my ds1 apologise to my mum's cat once too - I'd forgotten the totally mad things we do with 4 year olds!!

Best of luck - and do send that HV onto this thread if she thinks that locking a kitchen door is mad!

wannaBe · 30/07/2007 13:57

at 4 he is able to grasp the concept of action/consequence. Especially if he has the inteligence to realize that he should cover his tracks so you don't realize what he's done iykwim. Maybe initially a bolt on the door, but tbh I don't think this gives the message that he shouldn't go in there because it's wrong, it just gives the message that he can't go in there because it's locked, and once you take the bolt off again he may regress back into that behavior. If shouting at him hasn't worked, then i would move on from that, because it's clearly not a punishment he responds to.

Does he have many toys? a favourite one even? what I would do is to get a clear plastic box, put it out of reach but not out of sight, and when he does things he shouldn't, then take away favourite toys and place them in the plastic box. Then, in conjunction with a sticker chart/marble char (whichever you find easiest) reward good behavior with stickers/marbles ad when he gets to a certain amount, he will earn the confiscated toy back. But bad behaviors can also lead to the loss of stickers/marbles, so the better he behaves, the quicker he will earn back his toys, or, if he hasn't lost a toy, the quicker he will earn the promised insentive, ie the planet chart.

Original poster

EscapeFrom · 30/07/2007 14:00

I do switch the computer off - I say to him "You are not allowed on the computer today because you went in the kitchen and fiddled with things while mummy was upstairs, and that is not allowed! Tomorrow, if you stay out of the kitchen, you may go on the computer."

I will try time out then.

he has finished preschool, and will go to school in September - phew! but it's the summer holidays and has been for 2 weeks here.

I DON't bake with him, deliberately. because I really don't want to fog the issue of going in the kitchen until he has some self control - I can all too easily picture him waking up peckish at 4 am and deciding hot biscuits are the order of the day. I thought about it the opther day, but decided against it. I'm too scared.

moving the computer might be a good idea, I will come back to that if the bolt doesn't work! I do leave food out to tempt him with, but it's the fiddling he is drawn to, not so much the food.

cargirl, I don't really want to contact my health visitor for any reason what so ever. She's a loonytune, really! She told my doctor I was evidently suffering severe mental health problems because I mentioned in passing that I talk to myself sometimes, and the next time she visited (without warning!) she asked me, IN FRONT OF A FRIEND, if I was still hearing voices! (which I never was in the first place!) I had to ask for a mental health assesment to get her off my case, and they told her to back the hell off me, and I haven't seen her since the day after boxing day when she again turned up unannounced.

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