DS2, nearly 3, very very very angry

[NotQuiteCockney]

He's driving me up the bloody wall, tbh - he had the pox last week, which may well be a cause, but he is just furious most of the time with me.

I'm guessing he's pushing limits. I've been a bit shouty lately (the pox was hard, and it came in a week that just kept getting worse), but I am trying my best, I don't shout often, and I do apologise.

He just gets into a state ... but he's not really that angry, because he will pull his punches and kicks, if I say 'if you hit me, X will happen'.

It starts from when he wakes up, he gets angry at me because I won't climb into his cot to give him a bf. I've never climbed into his cot.

Last night he tantrummed for ages, I don't remember how it started, it got worse because I forced him into the bath in the middle of it (he smelled ).

I am trying to do 'how to talk ...' but it's not entirely appropriate for a not-very-verbal two-year-old. The whole thing has me angry, worn out, and fed up.

I feel your pain . dd is just getting over chicken pox too and she's exactly the same, i'm putting it down to tiredness as her sleep is all over the place. Bloody hard work, screaming hissy fits and tearing round like a mad thing. It must be the pox, mustn't it?

she's 2.3 btw

The pox has got to be a factor. I should be cutting him more slack. He's getting enough sleep now though, I think - maybe he needs more than usual, because he's recovering. No real way for him to get it, though.

He is particularly bad in the evenings, but he is bad during the day, too.

I have just had alighty battle with dd takeing her to nursery. I'm only just stopping shaking, twas hideous. She would not go in her car, queue massive tantrum. I had to take her in the house to calm down and I burst in to tears. I've just dropped her off now though. Really hard When she is back from nursery at lunch time i'm hoping she'll slepp this afternoon and hope it helps.

Mine had a good sleep last night, and woke up in a good mood, but running late. I got stressed, wanted him off, got into a fight about getting dressed, he was angry, I was angry, it was no good. I did manage to turn it around on the way in. He's doing the normal pushing limits thing, but with quite a bit of fury.

I have got to stop getting angry with him, I'm sure it makes things worse. (I shout, and then apologise. Not good. )

Getting dressed is such an issue with him, he wants something that's dirty, he wants to wear several layers of shirts. I give in on the layers, but not on the dirty clothes thing. I don't care if his clothes match or are appropriate, I do try to let him have his way.

Oh, and he wants to dress himself, but can't really manage it, and gets furious again.

Can you simplify his choices? For example, getting dressed, offer him a choice between a and b and that's it. If he kicks off, just walk out and leave him to get on with it.
DD was dreadful at this age and looking back, I think she had too much choice and it was really throwing her out.
It's really hard but the best thing we found during the screaming tantrums was just to gently close the door and let her get on with it. Try not to get cross because it doesn't do much good but let him scream if he wants - that's a choice he's making.
Hope that helps a bit.

I try to offer a choice of A or B, but he's perfectly happy to say 'no' to both (and will accept C or X or whatever, when I offer more choices). He will say 'yes' to both A and B, too, resulting in some interesting layering.

Walking away makes him more angry. The things that seem to calm him down, so far, are either a breastfeed, or distraction. Today I dressed him by force, expecting that would result in fury for hours, but actually he calmed down pretty quickly, and I calmed down too.

Sometimes giving attention and cuddles helps, but often he just hits me or tries to smear snot on me, when this happens.

I may try calmly using force next time, tbh. Me getting angry doesn't really help, and sometimes ends up disproportionate (because I am so angry about this going on all the bloody time of late), but just moving things forward as needed may sometimes be the answer, unhappy as I am with it.

IMO, walking away makes him more angry because it's something he can't control and he will soon realise that if all that happens is he gets ignored when he tantrums, then hopefully will stop... maybe...perhaps....
If you offer A or B, stick to your guns and just keep repeating calmly that this is the choice, A or B. Nothing else is on offer.
And maybe the dressing by force kept him calmer because that was it - no choices, no chance to influence anything, that was just what was going to happen, end of.

I picked up dd from the nursery and she was ok. Tried putting her in the car seat and the same things happened . Brought her home (she fell asleep in the car) tried putting her to bed and we had a tantrum that lasted 3/4 hour . She got really really really angry. When she calmed down I sat with her and offered cuddles which she didn't want but wouldn't let me go either. in the end I left the room and let her get on with it, she fell asleep in a bout 5 minutes. I feel like someones swopped my child. I'm hoping the old one will be back when she wakes up

I used to walk away when DS1 tantrummed, and that worked. But DS1's tantrums weren't so strong, and were just different. (They also were done by 2.5 - but DS1 was better at talking than DS2 is.)

Today has been better, I've been heading things off at the pass more. Well, we also had a very good playdate for DS1 this afternoon, which always helps.

He does seem less angry today, though, maybe the pox are hurting him less?

If you think he's having trouble expressing himself because of not talking much, what about one of those books with loads of pictures and words so he could communicate more or msome kind of signing?

Well, he's talking fine for his age (so I'm told), just his brother was enunciating and expressing himself much much better at this age. My expectations are wrong, I think.

Today was better, again. Again I dressed him by force, but we moved on from it. A mix of some choice, some just doing it, and some diversion, seems to be helping. Well, and his spots are loads better, which must help.

This is also my 2 and 8month old DT, but he doesn't have pox, he had it at 8 months old, so don't THINK i can blame that anymore.

WE think, and we cling to this assumption everytime we want to lock him in a sound proof cupboard, that it WAS his ears. He has glue ear and had his grommets fitted about 3 months ago. He should have had them fitted a lot sooner so we believe that previous to grommet fitting he was in pain and would lash out and be terribly angry....however because the fitting was delayed he has now learned how to behave badly to get attention, so the grommets have not solved his behaviour but at least now he can hear us shouting at him!

My HV thinks his behaviour is typical toddler and to ride it out, but to deal with him differently than i was doing. She said to stop using the word norty to describe him and in fact to stop using the word altogether. A toddler will live up to their lable, if they constantly told they are norty they will be norty. Anyway she said to be sure to explain to him what he is doing is wrong and that you don't like it, but you do still like him. He needs reassurance that mummy still loves him. We had a norty corner, she said to call it the time out corner. and she said to always hug him after time out is complete to try and calm him down (my DS can sit in norty, sorry time out corner for ages, fuming). She said to leave him 2 mins, go back to him and ask if he is ready not if he is sorry, if he isn;t ready, just say, well you know where mummy is when you are ready and go sit somewhere he can see you.

So far we have TRIED all this, but can anyone tell me another word for norty!!! Its the first thing that pops out when i see him drawing on the wall!

I guess after all that waffling, what i trying to say is, have you ruled out pain (a dose of ibuprofen or calpol isn't dangerous if you want to test that theory)....before grommets were fitted i got to the end of my tether with him and gave him some painkillers one morning, he was like a different child, i had the best day with him ever! Hence we hung all our hope on the grommets. That hasn;t solved it BUT we now working on the Super nanny techniques!

The key is to be consistant, don't let him do something one day then not the next blah blah....and my last comment, he will grow out of it!