Good old fashioned smacking

[heepie]

I don't believe it did me any harm and I do wonder why the previous generation, ie mine, was so much better behavied than the current, ie my kids. I find the softly softly, ignore bad reward good behaviour does not work with a strong willed child and find myself more and more thinking what was wrong with a good old smack? Peeing on the floor right in front of you with a big smile on the face surely warrants more than the removal of a star on the reward chart? And whacking little brother over the head with a heavy object? Not eating something very nice and edible that I have slaved over in the kitchen? Why must we never tell our children to eat what is in front of them when I wasn't allowed to leave the table until I was finished? I don't have an eating disorder. I think it's time I through all the modern how to bring up children books out of the window and remember how it was done when I was a child? Anyone else feel this way?

either way its still abuse

This really worries me now, that people actually under the illusion that putting a child through the trauma of being seperated from their parents, being taken into care would be the best for the child for the sake of a few smacks...and I am talking smacks not beating....really......

Lucyellen'smum I don't agree that just because shouting isn't preferable it means that smacking is ok. Smacking is not ok IMHO. A child's body is his own, to smack is to condition that child to think it's ok for it to be violated. When a child goes to school and gets bullied or punched he will always think he did something to deserve it which is clearly not right.

However i agree with Heepie, yelling does teach kids you've lost control but lets face it most of us didn't morph into Mary Poppins when we became mothers. The generations that used smacking as wrong as it was had the fear factor on their side and I think kids didn't dare push the buttons that kids do today. I think a lot of us stressed mums today end up shouting more than our mothers did as a result.

I can't remember my mother ever shouting even though she says she did however I remember the smacks I had from my father, the knowledge it wasn't right and the resentment that he was bigger than me. With my kids they do on occasions shout back so I feel it's a bit more even and it only lasts for 2 minutes, I always apologise and they have on occasion patted me on the back saying it's ok you just lost your temper. I genuinely try to do better next time, I think they are aware I am only human but I was genuinely scared of my dad there is a difference. Physical pain is horrible when somebody else has inflicted it deliberately.

Having said all that now I'm a parent the resentment is lessening towards my father as he is a very loving dad and I'm more aware that he probably found the whole parenting thing tough at times like we all do. I wish I knew what the answers were. I often feel I'm being left to go into battle with absolutely no weaponry which leads to shouting as after continous times of saying "please don't do that I don't like it" in a sing song voive even a saint would bellow "go away I've had enough"!!!!!

I

yes but we all find parenting tough at times. but that is still no excuse to inflict physical pain on someone who is smaller than you and unable to defend themselves. Thats just being a bully IMO

Would you really accept your partner/your children/your friends smacking you every time they disagreed or got angry with you?

Is it okay that I come round to your house and hit you because I am angry with you because you hit your children?

If you hit your child then you have no right to tell your child off for hitting another person (be it adult or child) because you hit your child. Or is it all about "do as I say, not as I do".

yawn

Please hold your hand up when you yawn or I might start

Yawn!

is there a suggestion here that we done this to death?

Milamae, i didnt meant that smacking was acceptable, read my previous posts.

yeah, me too Yawn

Ok, I haven't read the entire thread, just the start (omg, I don't have all day!).

What happened to good old common sense, and doing what YOU think is right?

I received the odd smack when I was young and it didn't harm me. It didn't send me the message that hitting is good and I never went off to school beating people up as a consequence. Seriously, I think some children respond to a smack.

DD is a very strong willed little girl, and I think that some things do warrant a smack. I will only do it if she is going to harm herself (i.e. attempt to run off onto the road).

I am all for obtaining guidance from the authorities and from research (name a parenting book and I've probably got it!) but when it comes down to it, it is our responsibility as parents to do what WE think is right for our children. After all, we chose to have them, and to take on the ultimate challenge.

PArenting books!!! Why? Why? Why? They never had them 30 years ago but people still reproduced and brought up children. NOw we have fecking guru books on everything. It spoils our instincts as a parent

There have ALWAYS been parenting books. I bet there were cave paintings advising parents on how to raise their children. There's tons of (often dubious) parenting advice in the bible. John Wesleys wife wrote one. My mother was given a book when she had my elder brother 62 years ago which said that the only physical contact you should have with your child after babydom was a handshake or a kiss on the forehead. There's a wonderful history of parenting manuals by (I think) Christina Hardiment but I can't remember what it's called.

My MIL gave me a load of horrible draconian parenting books, including one by the delightful James Dobson

I also had a few that I bought myself, of various vintages. They do make interesting reading if you are making an academic-type comparison - but for a vulnerable new mum it's a disaster. I had a bonfire and burnt all mine when ds1 was four weeks old.

How would I want parents dealt with who have broken English law on this as it currently stands? Depends on the case. We have seat belt laws. We have speeding laws. A lot of smacking is in that kind of category. I would have thought for a first offence as long as it was just a smart slap leaving a red mark a warning is the best first stage and leaflets given to the parents about it. Then if they persist the Danish solution of interviews to get people to realise it's criminal (clearly we've a long way to go even amongst mumsnetters huge numbers of which seem to believe it's fine to smack children)... then perhaps give the children alarms to notify the authorities when their parents continue even after 2 or 3 warnings.

It would not usually be appropriate to remove a child. My father as a psychiatrist was even of the view that so much harm is done to children in care that very mild child sexual abuse can be better dealt with by leaving the child where it is which i know is a very controversial thing to say but if you look at the results and effects of children in care and you're balancing two evils taking children away is not always right - obviously depends on the abuse - beating with canes every week in the name of God or whatever very different from some light smacking that leaves marks and may be just tiny bruises.

Smacking that leaves bruises!?! Are you serious?

The thing I hate most about this therad title are the words 'good old'???

Crikey! Putting a child into care for being smacked?

Seriously?

That's a bit fucked up, tbh. By all means make the parents attend parenting classes and counselling etc. But put a child in care?

If they've already been 'emotionally damaged' through being smacked - what is separating them from their parents and putting them in care "for a spell" going to do to them?

Its all very well ensuring that punitive action is taken, and remedial work undertaken, but, not at the detriment of the child - which is surely the whole point of this?

See, this is my problem with smacking being made illegal.

Putting children into care?

I don't think "a bit fucked up" is a very useful or analytical label

I think I explained in my post what my reasoning was for thinking a prison term is appropriate for severe smacking (ie hitting) which leaves a mark. If you don't agree with my reasons, that's OK - that's what we're here for - but why insinuate that I haven't given a reasoned argument? Clearly I have.

I'll reiterate it for you: IMO although it's true that being taken into care would be massively traumatic for the children/parents involved, I think strongly enforced legislation is the only way to stamp out the kind of severe, damaging hitting that is still deemed normal in some families. The way to avoid it happening is quite easy - if you don't hit/mark your child, you've nothing to fear. Sweden's prisons aren't full of innocent loving parents who flew off the handle in the supermarket - but the law is there, to protect the children of parents who would otherwise be quite happy to hit them hard enough to mark.

Perhaps it isnt useful or analytical. Its simply what i think.

I think putting a child into care for having been smacked is fucked up.

I also think that a focus on smacking detracts form other behaviours which are equally damaging. Constant shouting, witholding affection, emotional blackmail. But harder to legislate against. Not that I think a ban on any smacking wouldn't be a nightmare to actually enforce.

Indeed.

Social services are already burgeoning with cases and children that need 'placing'. Our areas social services were briefly in partnership with those that handled (or not as the case may be) the Victoria Climbie case.

New foster carers are advertised for regularly in local papers. There just isnt enough.